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Zeluvia 29th July 2020 07:04 AM

Things
 
France is building a fusion reactor.


Google has a working prototype of a quantum computer.


Japan addressed it's labor shortage with robots.


The Covid-pandemic has proven a few things:


1. The majority of the people in the first world aren't engaged in really productive labor. They spend a lot of time entertaining each other.


2. The most productive and necessary people are paid the least.


3. We aren't in a capitalist competitive economic system, as shown by the disconnect between the stock market and the reality of the economic situation for most people.

Carlsson 29th July 2020 06:14 PM

Everyone is building the fusion reactor, its just placed in Baguette-


Here is a great video


MondoVman 29th July 2020 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeluvia (Post 461115)
France is building a fusion reactor.


Google has a working prototype of a quantum computer.


Japan addressed it's labor shortage with robots.


The Covid-pandemic has proven a few things:


1. The majority of the people in the first world aren't engaged in really productive labor. They spend a lot of time entertaining each other.


2. The most productive and necessary people are paid the least.


3. We aren't in a capitalist competitive economic system, as shown by the disconnect between the stock market and the reality of the economic situation for most people.

Start watching "How It's Made", then ask yourself "How was that made?"

You're a modern day anti-Luddite Luddite, aren't you?

I hereby name you PAM for your pissing and moaning about the greatest species on earth. /troll

Have you seen what man can do with corn? Corn is king due to technology

Prince Humperdinck 29th July 2020 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeluvia (Post 461115)
The Covid-pandemic has proven a few things:


1. The majority of the people in the first world aren't engaged in really productive labor. They spend a lot of time entertaining each other.


2. The most productive and necessary people are paid the least.


3. We aren't in a capitalist competitive economic system, as shown by the disconnect between the stock market and the reality of the economic situation for most people.

I agree with #3, but not #1 & #2.

Some and/or many, yes but I don't believe majority/most are true for those statements.

Zeluvia 30th July 2020 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MondoVman (Post 461147)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeluvia (Post 461115)
France is building a fusion reactor.


Google has a working prototype of a quantum computer.


Japan addressed it's labor shortage with robots.


The Covid-pandemic has proven a few things:


1. The majority of the people in the first world aren't engaged in really productive labor. They spend a lot of time entertaining each other.


2. The most productive and necessary people are paid the least.


3. We aren't in a capitalist competitive economic system, as shown by the disconnect between the stock market and the reality of the economic situation for most people.

Start watching "How It's Made", then ask yourself "How was that made?"

You're a modern day anti-Luddite Luddite, aren't you?

I hereby name you PAM for your pissing and moaning about the greatest species on earth. /troll

Have you seen what man can do with corn? Corn is king due to technology


I wasn't bothered by these things, or pissing and moaning about them.


I was thinking about how the trajectory of these different things will change the future.

MondoVman 31st July 2020 12:18 AM

Boo hoo Capitalism (supply vs demand).

Capitalism: "Wages are primarily about employee retention. Period."
High wage earners earn high wages based on supply and demand,
and fueled by an employer's desire to make shit and sell it at a profit!

You low information peeps seem almost deliberately dumb.

Zeluvia 31st July 2020 02:08 AM

Mondo, Adam Smith envisioned a time when shortages would disappear. At that point, he theorized that supply and demand would no longer be the drivers behind pricing. He envisioned a steady state economy. My point is not that capitalism is or was bad, it's that it is changing because we are in a post-shortage world. Capitalism isn't a fucking religion, no matter what you have been taught, its a theory that provides tools.



Adam also wrote that labor costs would be driven by the starvation of excess labor, which would then increase wages for the remaining workers. But we fail to let labor starve, now don't we?


Marx envisioned a world where work would no longer be necessary, and automation would replace it.


Both things are happening. Both models are collapsing, as their authors predicted they would.


200 year old social/economic theories are just that, 200 years old.


:awesome:

MondoVman 31st July 2020 10:01 AM

Would you support an economic theory that included reducing world population by 99%?

Brother Daniel 31st July 2020 12:15 PM

As long as you were one of the 99%, that'd be cool.

Zeluvia 31st July 2020 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MondoVman (Post 461201)
Would you support an economic theory that included reducing world population by 99%?


Not by the deliberate action of killing people. I am more in favor of the Universal Basic Income idea and the liberation of women. Since people would spend that income supporting themselves, it would be an economic driver. Also, even when people aren't working, they tend to do things. Those things they do could also contribute to the economy, even if it isn't "paid" work the way we think of it.


There was a book I read once where a guy said that unless people were at the point of starvation, they wouldn't take crappy jobs. I can't remember the book now, but it was also written at the beginning of the industrial revolution, and it referred in particular to coal miners and factory workers. It was an Englishman, Sir something or other. Although I think that is still true, it does point out that the system is coersive by design. We might be able to find other ways to make it work.



In the book "The Relentless Revolution, A history of Capitalism" she makes the point that it was technological advances in farming that kicked tenant farmers off land and created the large pool of very poor people who were willing to take crappy jobs to avoid starvation. It's not like this is a new thing, but the scale is huge.



Both Smith and Marx envisioned technology advancing to the point where there wouldn't be enough productive work for everyone, because they both were writing at the beginning of the industrial revolution. Neither envisioned the population explosion we have today.

MondoVman 31st July 2020 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeluvia (Post 461208)
In the book "The Relentless Revolution, A history of Capitalism" she makes the point that it was technological advances in farming that kicked tenant farmers off land and created the large pool of very poor people who were willing to take crappy jobs to avoid starvation. It's not like this is a new thing, but the scale is huge.

The logical response would have been to reduce the population by a huge,
offsetting amount so as to avoid working a "crappy job". Ah the good ole
days of manual farming, no readin, writein, or rithmetic, but the nubile
farmer's daughter to bear me a dozen children, over half of which will
die in childhood.

Let me know when the spaceship to New Earth is scheduled to leave.
Want to be among the first inhabitants.

Zeluvia 31st July 2020 07:32 PM

You aren't far off. The benefits of tenant farming though were better than coal mining and factory work. Even though it was hard physical labor, there were breaks, down time, and it wasn't as hard over time or as dangerous. Tenant farmers didn't get paid, unless they were allowed to sell their excess. Instead, they had to pay the landowner.


There is a great story I read once, about the Moscow Ribbon Company. A serf used to make ribbon in her spare time. She sold the ribbons secretly, to make enough money to buy her and her husband's freedom from their Lord. The Lord was very upset when he found out, but he needed the cash, so he took the deal. He even agreed to help them start a company in Moscow, by talking to his peers about investing. They did invest, and the couple started the company, and employed many people, mostly young women. Unfortunately, this was about 1916, so the Revolution did the company in.


I think we can fix the problems. I am not adverse to some draconian things. China's one child policy doesn't bother me, in the abstract. The fact that the people were stupid enough to only want sons was not the fault of the policy, it was the fault of failure to adapt and clinging to tradition. I think that some kind of license should be required to have children, or face penalties. The license should represent completion of basic education courses. It could be retroactive, to a certain time frame.



Another thing that doesn't bother me is Israel's mandatory service for young people. I think that is a great idea. I don't think it should have to be military service though, and I think it should go from about age 16 to age 23, with college starting at age 24.


I also think first grade should start much earlier, and second languages should be required.


And I think switching to plant based diets is a recipe to increase overall stupidity.

Cunt 31st July 2020 07:49 PM

I think Canada can fix most of it.

First idea, canadabeans. We grow enough decent-quality beans to feed everyone.

EVERYONE.

I think it's reachable, and scalable up to a very large population.

Zeluvia 31st July 2020 08:55 PM

beans are evil things, full of natural toxins : )

Imp 31st July 2020 09:25 PM

So are Canadians.

Brother Daniel 1st August 2020 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp (Post 461219)
So are Canadians.

They're pretty tasty stuffed and roasted. All dark meat though.

Timewave 1st August 2020 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Daniel (Post 461222)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp (Post 461219)
So are Canadians.

They're pretty tasty stuffed and roasted. All dark meat though.

Long Pork is dark meat?
I'm surprised :dunno:

Cunt 1st August 2020 03:37 AM

Much like other meaty areas, it can be bleached.

Brother Daniel 1st August 2020 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timewave (Post 461224)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Daniel (Post 461222)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp (Post 461219)
So are Canadians.

They're pretty tasty stuffed and roasted. All dark meat though.

Long Pork is dark meat?
I'm surprised :dunno:

Yes, it's surprising, but who am I to argue with the experts?


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