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Old 3rd April 2019, 05:31 PM   #446491  /  #5751
borealis
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Holy shit, Cunt, you're moving goalposts at a frantic rate.

You have an opinion, cool. MY opinion is that 5 years in prison for an illegal vote by a citizen - and let's remember this came out of Zeluvia explaining how primary voting is restricted - is draconian.

'Draconian' does not mean 'corrupt' so what are you talking about?
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Old 3rd April 2019, 06:52 PM   #446492  /  #5752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borealis View Post
Holy shit, Cunt, you're moving goalposts at a frantic rate.

You have an opinion, cool. MY opinion is that 5 years in prison for an illegal vote by a citizen - and let's remember this came out of Zeluvia explaining how primary voting is restricted - is draconian.

'Draconian' does not mean 'corrupt' so what are you talking about?
OK, so 'draconian' doesn't mean anything to me. I misunderstood that word, so how about using some clearer language?

It seems you are suggesting that the criminal voter experienced a harsher penalty than you thought they should.

What IS correct then? 4 years? Stern warning and have their vote removed from the rolls?

Or is it good the way it is, and your use of 'draconian' was just sympathizing with the convict?

I sympathize too, by the way. I just don't know where you stand on illegal voting, just that you said 'draconian' on the laws they enforce to keep their voting clean...

So what penalty would be 'not draconian', yet stern enough to serve the purposes of justice, in your opinion?
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Old 3rd April 2019, 07:31 PM   #446493  /  #5753
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Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by borealis View Post
Holy shit, Cunt, you're moving goalposts at a frantic rate.

You have an opinion, cool. MY opinion is that 5 years in prison for an illegal vote by a citizen - and let's remember this came out of Zeluvia explaining how primary voting is restricted - is draconian.

'Draconian' does not mean 'corrupt' so what are you talking about?
OK, so 'draconian' doesn't mean anything to me. I misunderstood that word, so how about using some clearer language?
That IS clear language, and a pretty common word ime:

Quote:
Draconian is an adjective meaning great severity, that derives from Draco, an Athenian law scribe under whom small offenses had heavy punishments (Draconian laws). - wiki, or any dictionary
so now you have a new word!

Quote:
It seems you are suggesting that the criminal voter experienced a harsher penalty than you thought they should.

What IS correct then? 4 years? Stern warning and have their vote removed from the rolls?

Or is it good the way it is, and your use of 'draconian' was just sympathizing with the convict?

I sympathize too, by the way. I just don't know where you stand on illegal voting, just that you said 'draconian' on the laws they enforce to keep their voting clean...

So what penalty would be 'not draconian', yet stern enough to serve the purposes of justice, in your opinion?
Yes, I think 5 years in prison for a citizen voting illegally is way too harsh. What purpose does it serve to keep this non-violent woman not employed, away from family, for 5 whole years?

How about a stiff fine, vote removed, perhaps a further loss of voting privileges? I'll also note that there is a strong movement in the US right now to restore voting rights to felons, and in some states what she did would even now be legal.

And here in Canada, prison inmates and felons are all permitted to vote - there are special voting setups for inmates to allow them to vote in their home ridings.

Sure I sympathise with the felon. But on general principles I believe Canada is more just in allowing inmates and felons to vote, as these are people who've been directly impacted by laws put in place by politicians.

As for ensuring the integrity of the voting system, lots of measures can be set up to help with that. Any system will not be perfect, but imo it is better to err on the side of the largest number of citizens being able to easily place a vote rather than making it hard for many citizens to vote out of fear of a small number of fraudulent votes.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 08:15 PM   #446494  /  #5754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borealis View Post
That IS clear language, and a pretty common word ime:

Quote:
Draconian is an adjective meaning great severity, that derives from Draco, an Athenian law scribe under whom small offenses had heavy punishments (Draconian laws). - wiki, or any dictionary
so now you have a new word!
I get it. I just don't agree. Especially when you are choosing to treat this convicted criminal, voting illegally, so gently.

She was already legally forbidden from voting, for being a criminal, when voting this time.

Sounds like there may be more to this than 'non-violent family woman', than your assessment allows.

For instance, why do you suppose a modern judge would place such a harsh penalty? Is this the harshest sentence which could be meted out? Or the lightest? What IS the range?

Anyway, a criminal who voted illegally was considered by a judge to deserve that sentence, and you have only presented positive information about her.

Nothing from the other side of this incident, borealis?

Quote:
Yes, I think 5 years in prison for a citizen voting illegally is way too harsh. What purpose does it serve to keep this non-violent woman not employed, away from family, for 5 whole years?
I would have to examine the judge's decision a lot more carefully to decide in particular. As I pointed out, I don't know if this is a 'minimum mandatory sentence' bit of news, or a 'judge handed down the maximum penalty' bit of news. Each might lead to different opinions.

In general, I think anyone who fucks with voting, should be forbidden ever after. Of course, I don't think everyone should get a vote, either (or not on most things)
Quote:
How about a stiff fine, vote removed, perhaps a further loss of voting privileges? I'll also note that there is a strong movement in the US right now to restore voting rights to felons, and in some states what she did would even now be legal.
I don't know if felons should be allowed to vote.

It isn't settled for me, at all. I know we allow it in Canada, but what you said about 'home riding'. Why should a criminal who rented a basement here in town, for 6 months, be allowed to vote from his federal prison, where he will reside much longer?

Ridings are a complicated area for me, too.

The whole thing is pretty complicated, so when the media fishes around until a black & white story shows up to be publicized, I am always a bit suspicious.

Quote:
And here in Canada, prison inmates and felons are all permitted to vote - there are special voting setups for inmates to allow them to vote in their home ridings.

Sure I sympathise with the felon. But on general principles I believe Canada is more just in allowing inmates and felons to vote, as these are people who've been directly impacted by laws put in place by politicians.
So the sexual predator who gets busted while living in your neighbourhood gets to vote in your elections for the duration of his/her sentence?

I kind of like the idea, in a way. The most horrible people are always disavowed by their respective communities. Unless they are like marines. Marines are still marines, even if other marines kill them for being horrible.

Quote:
As for ensuring the integrity of the voting system, lots of measures can be set up to help with that. Any system will not be perfect, but imo it is better to err on the side of the largest number of citizens being able to easily place a vote rather than making it hard for many citizens to vote out of fear of a small number of fraudulent votes.
Why protect a right so many people just don't care about?

You want to have a vote on whether people think they should have a democracy? Just look at the last turnout - it looks like people don't give a shit - by their voting patterns.

I don't think protecting everyone's vote is worthwhile. I think it is worth protecting every citizens vote, as much as they will fight to protect it themselves. Today, that 'fight' means finding out where the voting is, what time to show up and how to complete the ballot.

Not that high a bar.

As to identifying voters, I'm good with requiring people to have valid voter ID here, or in the US. If someone can't get their shit together, in time for a scheduled election, then their opinion on matters of state won't be missed.

If you have a citizen who is prevented from voting, and they don't fight for their right, why should anyone else?

Of course, that channel of fighting for their right must be protected, but so does the voting system.

I wish there was a test for citizenship, and if you pass it, you would earn the right to greater participation in government. That test would be best done with a shovel or axe, but I doubt it would ever happen. More likely is that we will continue to have everyone in Canada ruled by a party chosen in PQ and parts of ON.

The US will move toward being ruled by a few cities, because they have more people, so MUST know what's best for rural areas...
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Old 3rd April 2019, 08:43 PM   #446495  /  #5755
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Okay you two, you are confused. Whether or not convicted criminals can vote is up to the STATES. In Florida, for example, convicted FELONS can NOT vote. It doesn't matter where you were convicted. In Texas, THEY CAN!


1. In Texas, convicted criminals can VOTE once their time is served.


2. She was released. She was on supervised release, which is a bit less strict that full on probation. So she thought since she had served her time, and was released, she could now vote.


3. She was helped by a poll worker, admitted she was on supervised release, and the poll worker helped her fill out her forms so she could vote. The poll worker did not know that people on supervised release couldn't vote.


4. She will probably win on appeal.


There is another case, a woman who was actually a Poll WORKER and had a Green Card voted. That was illegal too, but she thought since she was on the path to citizenship, she could vote. She will be deported for violating the law. She voted for Trump : )
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Old 3rd April 2019, 09:28 PM   #446496  /  #5756
borealis
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I disagree with you on so many things here I'm not sure where to start.

Okay, Crystal Mason: what 'other side' do you think there is?

As for range of penalties, I found this pretty quickly:

Quote:
Ms. Mason is an African American in a predominantly white county in a state that has used the myth of widespread voter fraud to inhibit minorities from voting — something that did not go unnoticed on social media. Meanwhile, a white woman in North Carolina who admitted voter fraud was not charged; a white man in Colorado convicted of voter fraud was given probation; a white woman in Iowa who tried to vote twice for Donald Trump received probation and a $750 fine. Many noted the contrast between Ms. Mason’s sentence and the treatment by Tarrant County courts of a white teenager who killed four people while driving drunk: He was given probation after arguing he was a victim of an affluent lifestyle, and then sentenced to two years in prison after violating that probation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.1fa19c015c85

There are links to those cases in the article if you're too suspicious of WaPo.



I think every citizen should be allowed and encouraged to vote.

Quote:
Why protect a right so many people just don't care about?

You want to have a vote on whether people think they should have a democracy? Just look at the last turnout - it looks like people don't give a shit - by their voting patterns.
They should care. Of course, there are lots of reasons why people don't care. Often they don't understand why they should vote. Often they are cynical about politics and think their vote wouldn't count or wouldn't help things change. Lots of people are profoundly apolitical - they think politics is boring, it's a bunch of old guys spouting wordy opinions, they can't relate to it.

As for felons, you realise they aren't all rapists, murderers and child molesters, right? A lot of them are car thieves or embezzlers or drug dealers or drunk drivers or serial petty criminals.

I know a lot of people who committed petty crimes as young people (mostly young men), ranging from using, carrying, or selling drugs, breaking into camps and cabins, stealing boats for joyriding, getting into car accidents while drinking.

Some of them were caught and did time in prison. Most of them weren't caught. Almost all of them grew up and started acting like adults and are decent law-abiding working people. There's very little difference between the ones who were caught and the ones who weren't.

I have a friend who went to prison in the early 70s for the 4 kilos of hash her boyfriend stored under her bed. She got 18 months, out on work parole in six (nights and weekends in prison), full parole in a year. Then she went to medical school and has been a practicing ob-gyn for several decades.

I have another friend who was stunt driving next to a friend's car, all of them were drinking, all of them early 20s. Friend's car left the road, driver was killed. My friend took the fall, did weekends in jail for a year. Is now the most cautious driver you could encounter, has always been employed, has a nice family.

I bet you know people like these.

People make stupid decisions. Most of the time they learn to make less stupid decisions. I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to vote.

Quote:
As to identifying voters, I'm good with requiring people to have valid voter ID here, or in the US. If someone can't get their shit together, in time for a scheduled election, then their opinion on matters of state won't be missed.

If you have a citizen who is prevented from voting, and they don't fight for their right, why should anyone else?
What's wrong with the current system in Canada?

Lots of people have trouble 'getting their shit together'. They are timid, or depressed, or get flustered and nervous dealing with authority - I know a fair number of senior women who simply wilt if they get any sort of negative response from a government employee. I know people with minor mental disabilities who find it hard. I know people who are embarrassed because they are illiterate, or functionally illiterate. I know non-driving rural people who don't want to bother anyone to take them to town to get suitable ID (not having a driver's license in Canada is a curse - you have to get a provincial ID with photo in the goddamned city, for which you first need a copy of your birth certificate, and if you are a woman with a married name, you have to also get a copy of your marriage certificate).

I'm not okay with dismissing everyone who has trouble 'getting their shit together'. Sometimes it's a lot more shit than everyone else has to collect.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 09:31 PM   #446497  /  #5757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Okay you two, you are confused. Whether or not convicted criminals can vote is up to the STATES. In Florida, for example, convicted FELONS can NOT vote. It doesn't matter where you were convicted. In Texas, THEY CAN!


1. In Texas, convicted criminals can VOTE once their time is served.


2. She was released. She was on supervised release, which is a bit less strict that full on probation. So she thought since she had served her time, and was released, she could now vote.


3. She was helped by a poll worker, admitted she was on supervised release, and the poll worker helped her fill out her forms so she could vote. The poll worker did not know that people on supervised release couldn't vote.


4. She will probably win on appeal.


There is another case, a woman who was actually a Poll WORKER and had a Green Card voted. That was illegal too, but she thought since she was on the path to citizenship, she could vote. She will be deported for violating the law. She voted for Trump : )
Still all really shitty, IMO. Being told you have to go back to prison for five years for making a mistake sucks mightily. I know I'd need a pretty strong prescription, even to go through an appeal.

Also Jesus Christ Texas.

ETA: Mr. b. has been working with a Texas company industrial rep of some kind the past several months. Man's been finding Nova Scotia a pretty alien social environment. Mr. b. shakes his head, teases the man, laughs at his Yosemite Sam outbursts, then helps him out.
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Old 4th April 2019, 02:31 AM   #446505  /  #5758
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These two cases though are because of the Federal Law changing to allow Provisional votes. Both of those women cast provisional votes, and they were found out when the votes were reviewed.



Now, Texas does have a long history of voter fraud. For many years, thousands of DEAD people voted, mostly Democrats That fraud was perpetrated by people in LOCAL GOVERNMENT, and not by individuals, and this is the most common type of voter fraud in the US. Dead People Voting.






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Old 4th April 2019, 02:55 AM   #446506  /  #5759
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I don't know much about voter fraud, but I would say it should be treated as an affront to EVERYONE, in a way that is particularly offensive to the community.

A murder, for instance, only really affects one person, and their family. A voter fraud (or fraudulent politician) is robbing EVERYONE.
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:28 AM   #446510  /  #5760
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I don't have opinions about things I don't know much about.
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:10 PM   #446516  /  #5761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
I don't have opinions about things I don't know much about.
I call bullshit.

Heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect?

Also, to keep things simpler, have you heard the truism 'opinions are like assholes - everybody has one' ?

It's true. Another similarity is that some people know their assholes, while some pretend they don't have one. Both do have them.
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:14 PM   #446518  /  #5762
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This reminds me, Zeluvia, about a gossip conversation I had once...

By the way, it is admirable that you remind yourself of the limits of your knowledge when you find yourself having an opinion that is uninformed.

Back to the gossip...a guy I know announced that if anyone shared gossip with him, it would die with him.

It sounded like he was putting a stop to gossip, but he wasn't. He would listen to any of it, but would not reciprocate (the 'gossip' feature of our culture is to share it)

I later met someone who didn't like gossip. She would, if you mentioned someone else, pretty regularly and immediately bring them into the meeting or conversation. Funny shit at times, jarring and weird at others.

The first guy would listen...he was trained to listen, and would take in and use any of the gossip he heard. I would say he was using gossip.

The second person would NOT use it, except to help point out to people that talking behind someone's back should be done as if they were standing behind you.

I don't mind someone pretending they don't participate in gossip (or having an uninformed opinion) but taking that seriously would be an affront to reality.
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:12 PM   #446525  /  #5763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
I don't have opinions about things I don't know much about.
I call bullshit.

Heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect?

Also, to keep things simpler, have you heard the truism 'opinions are like assholes - everybody has one' ?

It's true. Another similarity is that some people know their assholes, while some pretend they don't have one. Both do have them.



AhHA! you don't really read my posts!


1. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they are full of shit.


Is the saying I was taught by my parents.


But let me put it this way, if you let yourself form an uniformed opinion, then confirmation bias will try to support that opinion. So, to be truly open minded about something you have to be on guard with yourself.
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:16 PM   #446526  /  #5764
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As for the Dunning Kruger effect, I just read the wiki on it. It seems there are updates:


Quote:
The authors' findings refute the claim that humans, in general, are prone to having greatly inflated views of their abilities, but they support two other tenets of the original Kruger and Dunning research: (1) that self-assessment skill can be learned and (2) experts usually self-assess themselves with better accuracy than do novices. The researchers noted that metacognitive self-assessment skill is of great value, and that it can be taught together with any disciplinary content in college courses.
And

Quote:
Studies of the Dunning–Kruger effect usually have been of North Americans, but studies of Japanese people suggest that cultural forces have a role in the occurrence of the effect.[16] The study Divergent Consequences of Success and Failure in Japan and North America: An Investigation of Self-improving Motivations and Malleable Selves (2001) indicated that Japanese people tended to underestimate their abilities, and tended to see underachievement (failure) as an opportunity to improve their abilities at a given task, thereby increasing their value to the social group.[17]
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:17 PM   #446527  /  #5765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

AhHA! you don't really read my posts!
I do read. If I forget, or something doesn't sink in, it might amount to the same thing.
Quote:


1. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they are full of shit.


Is the saying I was taught by my parents.


But let me put it this way, if you let yourself form an uniformed opinion, then confirmation bias will try to support that opinion. So, to be truly open minded about something you have to be on guard with yourself.

I find it better to lean right into your opinions, out loud, and listen to your friends, enemies and colleagues responses.

A good exercise is to try to utter an opposing position in a way that your opponent respects, but that has become very difficult, in the current world, where someone can mine your posts from 10 years ago to try to get you fired / deplatformed / vilified today.

Would you argue one side of, say, the gay-marriage debate, if you didn't know which side you had to argue? (I doubt I could do a great job, by the way)
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:21 PM   #446528  /  #5766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
As for the Dunning Kruger effect, I just read the wiki on it. It seems there are updates:


Quote:
The authors' findings refute the claim that humans, in general, are prone to having greatly inflated views of their abilities, but they support two other tenets of the original Kruger and Dunning research: (1) that self-assessment skill can be learned and (2) experts usually self-assess themselves with better accuracy than do novices. The researchers noted that metacognitive self-assessment skill is of great value, and that it can be taught together with any disciplinary content in college courses.
And

Quote:
Studies of the Dunning–Kruger effect usually have been of North Americans, but studies of Japanese people suggest that cultural forces have a role in the occurrence of the effect.[16] The study Divergent Consequences of Success and Failure in Japan and North America: An Investigation of Self-improving Motivations and Malleable Selves (2001) indicated that Japanese people tended to underestimate their abilities, and tended to see underachievement (failure) as an opportunity to improve their abilities at a given task, thereby increasing their value to the social group.[17]
Interesting bit about Japan. I remember a western scientist of some note wrote about having difficulty with their style of communication.

The example he gave was their gardens. If a Japanese person described their own garden, they said it was terrible, a failure, a messy disaster. If they described your garden, they only extolled its virtue and beauty. The western scientist found it interfered with communication about science.

He was smart and everything, but maybe he missed this advantage - of a more humble self-reflecting habit. (the scientist was Feynman in 'Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:26 PM   #446529  /  #5767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

AhHA! you don't really read my posts!
I do read. If I forget, or something doesn't sink in, it might amount to the same thing.
Quote:


1. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they are full of shit.


Is the saying I was taught by my parents.


But let me put it this way, if you let yourself form an uniformed opinion, then confirmation bias will try to support that opinion. So, to be truly open minded about something you have to be on guard with yourself.
I find it better to lean right into your opinions, out loud, and listen to your friends, enemies and colleagues responses.

A good exercise is to try to utter an opposing position in a way that your opponent respects, but that has become very difficult, in the current world, where someone can mine your posts from 10 years ago to try to get you fired / deplatformed / vilified today.

Would you argue one side of, say, the gay-marriage debate, if you didn't know which side you had to argue? (I doubt I could do a great job, by the way)

I have done a lot of thinking about gay marriage and marriage in general. I have known quite a few gay people, and many married people. I have read about marriage customs throughout history and in many cultures.


So I do have an opinion. And it is not uniformed. In my opinion, the only interest the modern state has in "marriage" is the care of children. Otherwise it is an out-dated institution that could be replaced by approximately 3 other types of legally recognized relationships that would better serve the states interest and the interests of the individuals involved, and bonus, be cheaper than an expensive marriage and divorce.


So, while I could take either side, that isn't a good example of something I have a bias on, because my bias is against the current institution of marriage, and I don't care who is married to what.


Full information, I never actually got Married. Texas had common law marriage up until about 2008, when they passed a marriage law that made it illegal. A common law marriage is simple, cohabitate for 6 months and represent yourself as married, and viola! you are married. So I lived with my ex for 25 odd years, and then we split up. We didn't get a divorce, we just quit filing our income tax jointly, and consider ourselves divorced.
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:28 PM   #446530  /  #5768
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My parents also taught me to say "I don't know". My father said people had a hard time saying that, but it was the right answer to most questions.
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:28 PM   #446531  /  #5769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

So, while I could take either side, that isn't a good example of something I have a bias on, because my bias is against the current institution of marriage, and I don't care who is married to what.
Sorry, not about your bias, but about the fact that by taking one side of this argument (whatever your beliefs) you could be mis-quoted as standing against a position you may not be against.

I was trying to describe how hard it is to publicly be respectful of opposing positions, without being accused of having that position.
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Old 4th April 2019, 08:44 PM   #446532  /  #5770
MondoVman
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
Don't be that guy who can't or won't communicate well or uses shit for grammar
or egotistically fails to indicate to whom their pronouns refer.

Re "positions not held", a true adult should humble themselves such that they BEGIN
their discourse with something like "I am for/against/neutral on position X, but here
is my statement (or what if) position on Y (or on not-X).

Also, don't pull a mind fuck and give out a "too long; didn't read" (tl;dr) SUMMARY
or really helpful introduction of what one will be saying AFTER penning a
multi-paragraph diatribe. IOW, give the tl;dr BEFORE the plethora.
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Old 4th April 2019, 08:59 PM   #446534  /  #5771
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Waddle waddle
Oh, OK, someone edit an old post to make a tl;dr summary of what the shit is going on here tia
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:58 PM   #446535  /  #5772
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
Nothing to see here, move along.


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Old 4th April 2019, 09:59 PM   #446536  /  #5773
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
Don't be that guy who can't or won't communicate well or uses shit for grammar
or egotistically fails to indicate to whom their pronouns refer.

Re "positions not held", a true adult should humble themselves such that they BEGIN
their discourse with something like "I am for/against/neutral on position X, but here
is my statement (or what if) position on Y (or on not-X).

Also, don't pull a mind fuck and give out a "too long; didn't read" (tl;dr) SUMMARY
or really helpful introduction of what one will be saying AFTER penning a
multi-paragraph diatribe. IOW, give the tl;dr BEFORE the plethora.

You do know your posts verge on the incomprehensible for me much of the time.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:04 PM   #446537  /  #5774
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

So, while I could take either side, that isn't a good example of something I have a bias on, because my bias is against the current institution of marriage, and I don't care who is married to what.
Sorry, not about your bias, but about the fact that by taking one side of this argument (whatever your beliefs) you could be mis-quoted as standing against a position you may not be against.

I was trying to describe how hard it is to publicly be respectful of opposing positions, without being accused of having that position.

I see, but I don't see what that has to do with keeping yourself from forming an uniformed opinion.



And see rule 2 my parents taught me.


2. Keep your opinion to yourself.



And I can see that problem ONLY if you are using the new communication skills that limit discourse to x number of characters. And anyone that forms an opinion based on some else's quote mining without researching the original context of the quote is an idiot just making noise.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:07 PM   #446540  /  #5775
Cunt
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Circum-polar region
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
And see rule 2 my parents taught me.


2. Keep your opinion to yourself.
When I am comfortable, I take mine out for exercise.

It's the only way the thing gets any real use, for me.

I could pretend I don't have one, or that it doesn't bias me, but I'm not interested in ignoring reality on that level (though I do understand the utility of such exercises)
Quote:
And I can see that problem ONLY if you are using the new communication skills that limit discourse to x number of characters.
huh?

Sorry, I mean, what?
Quote:
And anyone that forms an opinion based on some else's quote mining without researching the original context of the quote is an idiot just making noise.
That happens a lot. With humans, anyway.

You might check to see what your opinion is, but to pretend that we don't take our cues from others is to deny human research and experience.

For instance, how many people reasonably hate Trump, vs how many do so because of a (now debunked) conspiracy theory pumped hard by many media organizations?

There may be good reason to hate him, but I'm asking if you can see that some were led, and very deliberately.

Babies look to their adults to learn how to react to new situations. I'm given to understand this is true even with young adult soldiers, when they experience their first firefights.

We ALL take our cues this way. Knowing how it affects me is MUCH more valuable than denying it exists, or pretending that 'good people don't' do that sort of thing.
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