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Old 7th March 2019, 08:04 AM   #445338  /  #201
MondoVman
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1. The method "public int multiply(int otherNumber)" must be implemented, but hasn't as yet. The *example* println calls this not-yet-implemented multiply method.

2. The constructor "public Multiplier(int firstNumber, int secondNumber)" is implemented, was not called for, and is not called/invoked. So that is triplet-y odd. (attempting a joke here)

3. The method "public void printMultiplier()" gets the same critique as item 2.

Solution:
Change the constructor Multiplier to take one parameter (i.e. int number).
Add a method "public int multiply(int otherNumber)" that multiplies its parameter 'otherNumber' against the *sole* data member named "number", and returns the result of the multiplication, i.e. return number * otherNumber. Easy peasy.
Oh ya, and delete the line that declares otherNumber as a data member (your line 3)

Good luck!
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Old 8th March 2019, 04:02 AM   #445367  /  #202
MondoVman
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This should help even more. (Don't show this to the kid, as it's nearly complete solution)

To help, consider the Multiply class renamed to OilBarrel.
Each OilBarrel object has a barrelSize, i.e. knows its size.

public class OilBarrel
{
private final int barrelSize; // must be assigned a value in all constructors

public OilBarrel(int barrelSize) { this.barrelSize = barrelSize; }

public int TotalGallons(int numBarrel)
{ return numBarrel * barrelSize; }
}
}

public class Main {
// ...

OilBarrel myBarrel = new OilBarrel(55); // 55 gals per barrel
int numB = 7;
System.out.println("Total gallons for " + numB + " barrels = " + myBarrel(numB));
}
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Old 8th March 2019, 04:18 AM   #445369  /  #203
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thank you thank you thank you

now I have to figure it out enough so that I can nudge budding programmer along all while feeling falsely superior!
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:29 AM   #445391  /  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nostrum View Post
thank you thank you thank you

now I have to figure it out enough so that I can nudge budding programmer along all while feeling falsely superior!
You indulge in feeling superior to your children?
Does that not interfere with your smugness of being a good parent?
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:56 AM   #445392  /  #205
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Certainly not; one mark of a good parent is an unwavering conviction of one's ongoing superiority no matter how well one's children do. Indeed, their success is the best proof there is.
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Old 12th March 2019, 08:09 AM   #445472  /  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
This should help even more.
thank you! kid says thank you, also. I have told him that I am at the very end of being able to help him with this stuff so he took an extra ten minutes to explain how it all worked. (me: still no clue) He would like to know how you use your programming skills - he wonders if you have written any games
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Old 12th March 2019, 09:12 PM   #445504  /  #207
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
Your welcome. Re futures in programming, one must ask themselves whether one can truly commit themselves to expending excessive diligence and painstaking efforts involved in placing every dash, comma, slash, etc. in its required place, plus the creative juices and proper pacing for the long haul.

Learn to learn, pray, soar, and along the way, one discovers which passion(s) are worth following, pay the bills, and attract a good partner, and ...


Skip to last paragraph NOW.

Recall that I got B.A. in Chemistry (which depth and breadth served me well), yet my entire career was as a scientific FORTRAN (20 yrs), C++ (20 years), C# (5 years) programmer, and, was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 54 or so (better late than never).

I worked my first 11 years with one of the forerunners of today's video games' graphics == various fighter aircraft simulators' out-the-window (virtual reality) graphics.

Imagine 5 side-by-side electronics cabinets (each 3' wide x 5' tall x 3' deep) to generate ONE black and white, low resolution VR picture (640 pixels wide x 480 pixels high).

Java is NOT a video game language, because it's way too slow, because Java code/programs are translated only into the Java meta-language, and not into the instructions of the computer/chip/graphics processor on which the Java program appears to execute.

A Java program gets translated into a bunch of codes/instructions (meta-language) that are / will be read and executed by the Java Virtual Machine (a virtual computer; the actual program running on the/a computer/chip/graphics processor).

Meta-languages such as Java and C# are decent for user-interfacing (buttons, knobs, sliders, data entry windows).

Real languages such a C++ and C, and graphics packages such as OpenGL, are the bomb. Massively parallel 'stuff' like CUDA are way above my pay grade. I blame cerebral decay (heh)
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Old 12th March 2019, 10:19 PM   #445505  /  #208
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Hmmm so, in your opinion is it worth learning Java now, as an entry to programming? I have not been able to find a tutor (university second/third year student programmer is what I was thinking) for him and this MOOC Java course seems to be the most available class. It's done out of a Finnish Uni and so apart from language oddities - not that many shut up Imp - it's set for university-age students and thus runs at a brisk pace with not enough hand holding.

If not Java, what do you think is the best first language to learn? I do think the kid is keen enough to persevere and make a career out of it, somehow.
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Old 12th March 2019, 11:20 PM   #445511  /  #209
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
tl;dr Java is a decent first language. Plenty of opportunity to learn data types, data structures and control flow. Also, your child's future will likely have many more (at least 1 more) programming languages and techniques to be learned.

1. Hopefully the MOOC course is 100% self-paced, plus infinite retrys to succeed and infinite redo's to aid review/refreshing. That would mirror gymnastics' strident avoidance of holding "competitions" for those below some minimum level of ability. I heard some kids never participate in a competition due to risk of injury.

2. Am not able to counsel as a trained educator, for example, "Has a certain progress been achieved, and if not, then I would suggest X?"

The recent "Multiply" homework seems to me to be either at the same place or 2 or more steps backward compared to months ago homework you previously posted. Not really sure what's happened since then and now.

I can empathize with (assumed) not having others on pace with whom to share and ask questions.

Lastly, there is a vast amount of free source code on the internet to experiment with - both a good and bad. Try sticking to tiny free programs to help reveal techniques. However, structured learning materials and courses are the most practical.
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Old 12th March 2019, 11:46 PM   #445513  /  #210
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thank you, phew it's nice to hear that Java is ok as a starting point. Damn schools here don't start offering programming until kids are about 15 years old.

yep MOOC course is self-paced with unlimited tries to submit the correct answer

the time having passed and yes, not much progress, is down to school holidays where I didn't have enough motivation to insist we sit down and do some study each day. Plus, "we" spent 6 weeks trying to get this exercise done. He had been doing exercises entirely on his own and so I left him with this latest one for ages and then when I sat down with him I didn't have a clue. If it's gone backwards that's just how the course is structured. This constructor thing is a new concept that had a lot of blurb before the exercise but we just couldn't get the 'a ha' moment of what it's for. Luckily, kid has now got that 'a ha'. Me, I find the constructor thing not too different from sub-methods within the Main that we had been doing (maybe this is why you think it's at the same level?) but kid tells me he sees why we've moved onto doing this

if this was taught at a school he'd have been able to ask the teacher the question (and yes, it seems that it was just one thing that he needed to get his head around for this all to fall into place) to be able to do the exercise. As it is, there is a kind of discussion board thing that people can chat in and ask questions. We've tried a couple of times but the reaction has been suspicion that we are just asking for the solution when actually we need clarity around the concept. Plus, slight language barrier shut up Imp.

I've looked at many of the free smaller things; things aimed at kids are mostly utterly basic and not actual programming rather graphical logic type stuff. For adults they want money, damn them
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Old 12th March 2019, 11:52 PM   #445515  /  #211
MondoVman
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
That's very nice to hear. You are 100% right about learning about constructors versus sub methods (silly me and my cerebral decay for missing that advancement/growth)

To quote Zel, my work appears done, and have made no (new) enemies. : oh ya :
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Old 13th March 2019, 11:42 PM   #445554  /  #212
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: 'Murica
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
Java is NOT a video game language, because it's way too slow, because Java code/programs are translated only into the Java meta-language, and not into the instructions of the computer/chip/graphics processor on which the Java program appears to execute.

[snip]

Real languages such a C++ and C, and graphics packages such as OpenGL, are the bomb. Massively parallel 'stuff' like CUDA are way above my pay grade. I blame cerebral decay (heh)
Is that still really true? I thought processors had gotten fast enough so it doesn't make much of a difference.
I re-implemented some DB update routines into C++ (originally written in Java) about 10 years ago and it didn't improve performance all that much. Maybe the limitation was the DB server itself?

Isn't everything written for Android still written in Java (I haven't kept up). I'm pretty sure plenty of the dumb games are. So depending on what the kid means by writing games, it can be done. Maybe no Fortnight or Red Dead Redemption for the game consoles, but it's not like 99% of the people learning to code will ever do that anyway.


hahaha, I remember wanting my dad to write a Donkey Kong clone when we got our Atari 800 back in the 1800s
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:19 AM   #445575  /  #213
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thread title:
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:41 PM   #445585  /  #214
MondoVman
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Humperdinck View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
Java is NOT a video game language, because it's way too slow, because Java code/programs are translated only into the Java meta-language, and not into the instructions of the computer/chip/graphics processor on which the Java program appears to execute.

[snip]

Real languages such a C++ and C, and graphics packages such as OpenGL, are the bomb. Massively parallel 'stuff' like CUDA are way above my pay grade. I blame cerebral decay (heh)
Is that still really true? I thought processors had gotten fast enough so it doesn't make much of a difference.
I re-implemented some DB update routines into C++ (originally written in Java) about 10 years ago and it didn't improve performance all that much. Maybe the limitation was the DB server itself?

Isn't everything written for Android still written in Java (I haven't kept up). I'm pretty sure plenty of the dumb games are. So depending on what the kid means by writing games, it can be done. Maybe no Fortnight or Red Dead Redemption for the game consoles, but it's not like 99% of the people learning to code will ever do that anyway.


hahaha, I remember wanting my dad to write a Donkey Kong clone when we got our Atari 800 back in the 1800s
You are mostly to 100% right on all aspects you addressed, of course, and I'm guilty of knee-jerk absolutism.

Re Android, yes, the vast majority of development is in Java, including games. The simplest games can be written in the least capable language (e.g. 1960s interpretive BASIC), but when scaling up for massive operations/computation/data transformation, high(est)-throughput, forget about it. My guess is Fortnight is written in C or C++ (could be wrong though).

Anytime any program accesses the disc (10s of thousands of times slower than the cpu) or flash/ssd memory sticks (100s to thousands of times slower than the cpu), regardless of programming language, well, that shit, known as input/output from externals/peripherals, is slower than whale shit.

The MOFOs at Garmin fired me after 6 months for not being able to define and schedule (exactly) where and how I would be able to achieve the two must-have improvements required by their international customer. I was a Hail Mary hire (20+ years in real-time programming with plenty of emphasis on program performance/execution speed, data structures and memory management).
Their two must-haves were 1) Their program was thirty (30) times too slow; 2) Their memory footprint was 3 times too big.

Before being fired, I had criticized/questioned one team's unproven claim that passing around large arrays and lists in a certain manner was a possible and perhaps likely main contributor to a certain operation taking 8 minutes (not seconds) to complete. The system was required to complete individual operations (from the User pressing Enter until results were shown on the screen) in 0.5 seconds - fucking absurd, I know - but my plan there was to appeal to the customer on a case-by-case basis. Over the next week, those fuckers overhauled their shit exactly as I had said was needed, and voila!, the operation dropped to 5 or 8 second completion time (from 8 minutes). And none of those fuckers bothered to thank me, of course.
(For those playing the home game, picture me as you know my angry/impatient posts at MR, having a technical discussion with highly educated Indian engineers from India here on H1B visas. lololo. Fuck Garmin!)
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Last edited by MondoVman; 14th March 2019 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:55 PM   #445587  /  #215
nostrum
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I'm p sure Minecraft is java-based, which is how kid got interested in the first place
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:58 PM   #445588  /  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
(For those playing the home game, picture me as you know my angry/impatient posts at MR, having a technical discussion with highly educated Indian engineers from India here on H1B visas. lololo. Fuck Garmin!)
but you're the most patient poster on this board so colour me confused
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:03 AM   #445589  /  #217
MondoVman
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
Wow, thanks, but persistent-in-an-Aspie-way is more apt than patient.

A bad analogy of my (auto)anxiety (primarily due to mis-reading or not-reading others, whether facially or verbally) is akin to being hard of hearing coupled with a lack of adaptation/response. Oh well, thanks again.
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