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Old 4th April 2019, 11:34 PM   #446542  /  #5776
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
And see rule 2 my parents taught me.


2. Keep your opinion to yourself.
When I am comfortable, I take mine out for exercise.

It's the only way the thing gets any real use, for me.

I could pretend I don't have one, or that it doesn't bias me, but I'm not interested in ignoring reality on that level (though I do understand the utility of such exercises)
Quote:
And I can see that problem ONLY if you are using the new communication skills that limit discourse to x number of characters.
huh?

Sorry, I mean, what?
Quote:
And anyone that forms an opinion based on some else's quote mining without researching the original context of the quote is an idiot just making noise.
That happens a lot. With humans, anyway.

You might check to see what your opinion is, but to pretend that we don't take our cues from others is to deny human research and experience.

For instance, how many people reasonably hate Trump, vs how many do so because of a (now debunked) conspiracy theory pumped hard by many media organizations?

There may be good reason to hate him, but I'm asking if you can see that some were led, and very deliberately.

Babies look to their adults to learn how to react to new situations. I'm given to understand this is true even with young adult soldiers, when they experience their first firefigh

We ALL take our cues this way. Knowing how it affects me is MUCH more valuable than denying it exists, or pretending that 'good people don't' do that sort of thing.

That has been my point all along, glad you finally got there. You can't take cue's from something you are ignoring. You can't be led if you are working on keeping an open mind, by deferring forming an opinion until you feel you are adequately INFORMED of FACTS.



But you forget the effect of confirmation bias. Those that are most likely to be "led" as you said already had a bias. They formed an opinion, and then absorbed information that supported that opinion.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:42 PM   #446543  /  #5777
Cunt
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Circum-polar region
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
But you forget the effect of confirmation bias. Those that are most likely to be "led" as you said already had a bias. They formed an opinion, and then absorbed information that supported that opinion.
Oh, I don't forget it. I may not catch it every time, but I sure find it easier to see in others.

The best thing about the Q conspiracy theory, is that everyone being suspicious of the source, or the quality of the information, or whether it might be disinformation, rather than just misinformation...all that should apply to the trusted news sources as well.

Those trusted sources have been shown to be WAY stupider than they actually are, of late, but I think it's a good preparation for what is coming.

Video evidence will soon be useless. The fact that someone is in a video, saying and doing things, can be created pretty much from nothing.

This will bring that large trust in media back to where it belongs, in my opinion, but it promises to be a bit disruptive.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:52 PM   #446544  /  #5778
Imp
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Waddle waddle
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Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Nothing to see here, move along.


That, I can believe.
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Old 5th April 2019, 03:32 AM   #446547  /  #5779
MondoVman
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
Don't be that guy who can't or won't communicate well or uses shit for grammar
or egotistically fails to indicate to whom their pronouns refer.

Re "positions not held", a true adult should humble themselves such that they BEGIN
their discourse with something like "I am for/against/neutral on position X, but here
is my statement (or what if) position on Y (or on not-X).

Also, don't pull a mind fuck and give out a "too long; didn't read" (tl;dr) SUMMARY
or really helpful introduction of what one will be saying AFTER penning a
multi-paragraph diatribe. IOW, give the tl;dr BEFORE the plethora.

You do know your posts verge on the incomprehensible for me much of the time.
Too funny. All three opinions are clear.
1. Don't be that guy. Are you that guy? A guy who a) uses "you" when
talking about themselves, or b) upon checking their post and seeing other
posts have interleaved theirs egotistically chooses to NOT edit their post
to indicate which specific person their "you" refers? I think we all get 30
minutes to edit our posts.

2. Positions held. Cunt maintains he likes to spout his agreement with
a position he doesn't actually hold to see an effect, and then complains
others often hold him responsible for his statement and without allowing
him to afterward clarify that his true thinking/opinion is not what he stated.

3. The tl;dr. I hate those who post multiple paragraphs of details then
egotistically pen a single sentence summary. Post your fucking summary
first and label it either "summary" or "tl;dr".

It must suck to be you if you can't comprehend this explanation, Zel.
/zingBackAtYa
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Old 5th April 2019, 04:21 PM   #446560  /  #5780
Cunt
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Circum-polar region
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
2. Positions held. Cunt maintains he likes to spout his agreement with
a position he doesn't actually hold to see an effect, and then complains
others often hold him responsible for his statement and without allowing
him to afterward clarify that his true thinking/opinion is not what he stated.
I don't often espouse a position which I don't hold, but I do try out ideas which I later change my mind on.

Are you confused about something I said? If you are, and didn't ask for clarification, I guess you are 'that guy'.
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Old 6th April 2019, 03:03 AM   #446573  /  #5781
MondoVman
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

So, while I could take either side, that isn't a good example of something I have a bias on, because my bias is against the current institution of marriage, and I don't care who is married to what.
Sorry, not about your bias, but about the fact that by taking one side of this argument (whatever your beliefs) you could be mis-quoted as standing against a position you may not be against.

I was trying to describe how hard it is to publicly be respectful of opposing positions, without being accused of having that position.
Perhaps I read both you and Zel too literally.

1. Re taking a position you don't agree with:
a. "while I could take either side" - Zel
b. "but about the fact that by taking one side of this argument (whatever your beliefs)" - Cunt
- Both of you seem to claim/imply no loss of integrity or clarity in taking a
side you don't agree with. I believe "taking either side" shows a lack of
integrity or simple gamesmanship for funzies, not actual discussion. We all
like fun. I don't take a side I don't wholly agree with in a discussion.

2. "you could be mis-quoted". Huh? The person being mis-quoted bears
exactly zero responsibility for the words/behavior of others

3. "standing against a position you may not be against". Again, a true
adult would clearly state what their position is, unless of course they
insist on living a real-life game of mafia-style communication, i.e. lying.
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Old 6th April 2019, 03:24 AM   #446576  /  #5782
Cunt
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Circum-polar region
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
Perhaps I read both you and Zel too literally.
Probably, but you might be doing some subtle form of comedy to help me underline my point.

Quote:
1. Re taking a position you don't agree with:
a. "while I could take either side" - Zel
b. "but about the fact that by taking one side of this argument (whatever your beliefs)" - Cunt
- Both of you seem to claim/imply no loss of integrity or clarity in taking a
side you don't agree with. I believe "taking either side" shows a lack of
integrity or simple gamesmanship for funzies, not actual discussion. We all
like fun. I don't take a side I don't wholly agree with in a discussion.
What I meant, is that if one were to practice a debate, without knowing which side they had to argue for, they would be pilloried by folks who thought that quote (or mis-quote) described the whole person.

Quote:
3. "standing against a position you may not be against". Again, a true
adult would clearly state what their position is, unless of course they
insist on living a real-life game of mafia-style communication, i.e. lying.
You are a liar.

So am I, and anyone else here who is not a 'bot'. It's unavoidable, given the broad definitions used.

So dispensing with that, if you can't state my position, to my satisfaction, how can I be sure you understand me?

If you DO state my position, to communicate your clear understanding of it, someone could 'Mondo' you (i.e. - come along taking you literally in cases where you didn't mean to be taken literally)
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Old 6th April 2019, 06:28 AM   #446579  /  #5783
MondoVman
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
No comedy intended in previous posts nor this one.

I suppose I failed overall and perhaps even in details. Oh well.

However,
1) When I argue/discuss/debate a position I hold, I strive
to convey my meaning based on what I know, or think fact or
most probable.

2) Were I to a/d/d a position I do not hold, I'd be pretending what
it would be like to hold that position and therefore every word I uttered
would be imagined bullshit and be based on bullshit.
For instance, arguing against abortion were I for it. Arguing against
capital punishment (putting a convicted murderer to death) were I
for it. Bullshitting is never the same as one's truth.

And no, the earth ain't flat <--- My joking exit.

Could someone edit this post to add a tl;dr for Imp, our resident emotional cripple.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 6th April 2019, 07:05 PM   #446590  /  #5784
Cunt
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Circum-polar region
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
No comedy intended in previous posts nor this one.

I suppose I failed overall and perhaps even in details. Oh well.

However,
1) When I argue/discuss/debate a position I hold, I strive
to convey my meaning based on what I know, or think fact or
most probable.

2) Were I to a/d/d a position I do not hold, I'd be pretending what
it would be like to hold that position and therefore every word I uttered
would be imagined bullshit and be based on bullshit.
For instance, arguing against abortion were I for it. Arguing against
capital punishment (putting a convicted murderer to death) were I
for it. Bullshitting is never the same as one's truth.

And no, the earth ain't flat <--- My joking exit.

Could someone edit this post to add a tl;dr for Imp, our resident emotional cripple.
Thanks in advance.
Use your example of abortion (or whatever example touches you) and consider this:

If you can't provide clear and satisfactory arguments for both sides of that debate, I submit that you don't know both sides' clear and satisfactory arguments.
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