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Old 26th February 2016, 08:21 PM   #315422  /  #176
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I'm not sure any of that applies except in the sense of an objet d'art. 'Youth' is a pretty broad category of described humanity, and one that artists have for centuries approved as aesthetically useful to imply, depict, applaud and symbolise a hundred different concepts.
I don't disagree that they did, and do. I am merely questioning the why.

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Most of those artists have been men, and a very small number of them have ever been taken to task over their sexualising youth inappropriately.
I don't think sexualizing is necessarily what I'm getting at (if I'm getting at anything... it's an interesting aside in any event).

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'Youth is attractive' is a blunt aesthetic truth.
Depends on your definition of aesthetic, I venture to suggest. I agree that renaissance art is beautiful, I love it, and yes it attracts my gaze. Actual real life "youth walking up the road", sometimes evinces a kind of warm fuzzy thing if they seem like nice kids, a kind of "ahh I hope you all do well" sentiment, but I'm not sure they attract my gaze more than any other age group. I mean, all humans attract one's gaze for one reason or another.

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If you find people saying it's unacceptable to say so if you're a man, you've found people whose thinking is muddy and confused. IMO.
Okay we picked up with my observation that it would have looked creepy coming from a man. I'm not saying it would have been intended to be creepy, a man could use the same words with a similar aesthetic sense as you are using, I recognise that. I guess my point there is more a reflection on how much more likely I would be to instinctively do a double-take with a man.


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I don't have any desire to return to my youth, but I can look back at it objectively and find that despite my self-doubt at the time, I was beautiful. There's no desire in that, just observation, and noting that beauty was primarily informed by youth.
Sure, but that's not "attraction" though. It's appreciating the beauty of the thing - of the memory itself even - without being attracted per-se. That's what I'm getting at with my thinking is that the words "youth is attractive" probably says too much. It is beautiful, but not one that necessarily attracts in most senses of the word (other than sexual, which is what the problem with the creepy thing is).

I should add that somewhere in the background here I'm annoyed with the whole evo-psyche + statistics bullshit which somehow concludes from "teh animals, innit" that the finding "most men are sexually attracted to young women" is therefore a 'natural' thing. Not least because it completely closes off the possibility that it is actually the product of certain ideological constellations (which can recur at different times and in disparate cultures).
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Old 26th February 2016, 08:24 PM   #315424  /  #177
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Holy crap, what did I do this thread?
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Old 26th February 2016, 08:34 PM   #315427  /  #178
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:getout:

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Old 26th February 2016, 08:38 PM   #315428  /  #179
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Lol.

Gimme a bit of time, am multitasking.
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Old 26th February 2016, 09:19 PM   #315436  /  #180
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:getout:

(On tapatalk so nfi if this is a smiley here)
There is no smiley, but it still works.
I'll get me coat.
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Old 26th February 2016, 09:23 PM   #315437  /  #181
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Lol.

Gimme a bit of time, am multitasking.
Lol, if you want to pass on replying and let it die kill it dead, then I'm fine with that.
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Old 26th February 2016, 10:19 PM   #315448  /  #182
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no, interesting discussion but maybe needs to find an old psych thread or something.

meanwhile, the lake is wide open now!
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Old 26th February 2016, 10:24 PM   #315452  /  #183
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I used to live near a pond. Was quite a big one with swans and coots and everything. Got pretty in winter. Then some run off from a local dump / industrial killed all the fishes with red stuff, then I moved away.

Would like to live near a lake. I remember telling you about that book I read which I can't remember, but was based up where you are. Some people went through the ice, but I expect that happens in most novels about that place.
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Old 26th February 2016, 10:36 PM   #315461  /  #184
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People go through the ice every year. A snowmobiler drowned last week not far away. People get cocky, or they don't learn the local conditions, or don't know how to judge or see where streams enter or currents are likely, or misjudge the weight of their machines.
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Old 27th February 2016, 11:07 AM   #315721  /  #185
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Funny, if a bloke had said that it would have been creepy.
In context and without any sexual innuendo, I wouldn't think so. Youth is attractive.
I'm not sure I agree, or at least in what senses I would agree.
When compared to the wrinkledom, randomly appearing aches and pains, the diminution of physical ability, the onset of dementia and the decreasing timespan between now and the inevitability of death as one gets older, "youth" definitely becomes more attractive over time. It has nothing to do with what you are thinking about. You'll discover that when your callowness fades and you face decrepitude yourself, grasshopper.
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Old 27th February 2016, 12:58 PM   #315732  /  #186
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Funny, if a bloke had said that it would have been creepy.
In context and without any sexual innuendo, I wouldn't think so. Youth is attractive.
I'm not sure I agree, or at least in what senses I would agree.
When compared to the wrinkledom, randomly appearing aches and pains, the diminution of physical ability, the onset of dementia and the decreasing timespan between now and the inevitability of death as one gets older, "youth" definitely becomes more attractive over time. It has nothing to do with what you are thinking about. You'll discover that when your callowness fades and you face decrepitude yourself, grasshopper.
I appreciate, and recognise the sentiments. I don't think you know what I was thinking about however, but I've decided here's not the place to deconstruct "the attractiveness of youth".
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Old 27th February 2016, 10:15 PM   #315831  /  #187
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I don't think you know what I was thinking about
"if a bloke had said [youth is so attractive] it would have been creepy" does shed some light on what you are thinking about. I am a bloke who agrees that youth is so attractive, and I provided a reason why I agree with Borealis. Was that creepy? Don't forget the context in which it was said: regret that youths, as you put it, are "grown up a bit".
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Old 27th February 2016, 11:59 PM   #315855  /  #188
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I don't think you know what I was thinking about
"if a bloke had said [youth is so attractive] it would have been creepy" does shed some light on what you are thinking about. I am a bloke who agrees that youth is so attractive, and I provided a reason why I agree with Borealis. Was that creepy? Don't forget the context in which it was said: regret that youths, as you put it, are "grown up a bit".
The problem here is we're covering two bases: the original observation which is the higher likelihood that I would do a double-take at an older man saying "youth is attractive", which is one side of it; and the question of in which sense it can truly be said that....

In the latter case I'm merely venturing that the word "attract" perhaps carries too much weight, or more than it needs to anyway. That the appreciation which you, bor and I share, that she and you are getting at in what you're saying, is not "attraction" as such.

Abstractly I can see how it works, in terms of art and aesthetics, but it's not something one would typically say in a concrete situation, looking at a bunch of 15 year olds for example, and if some bloke did just come out and say "that's attractive" you'd probably want to be sure in what sense he was speaking.

But really, do we have to do this? I mean, language is a bugger for its ambiguity, like pretty much every word has several definitions anyway so look, I'm really sorry I started this discussion okay.
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Old 28th February 2016, 12:15 AM   #315860  /  #189
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What the fuck have you people done to the "should I open my window" thread?
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Old 3rd April 2016, 11:53 PM   #321425  /  #190
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We're having a godamn blizzard.
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Old 3rd April 2016, 11:58 PM   #321426  /  #191
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lots of horizontal lightning earlier, not seen anything quite like it before
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Old 4th April 2016, 12:15 AM   #321428  /  #192
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We're having a godamn blizzard.


Driving on the interstate last night was dreadful.
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Old 4th April 2016, 12:26 AM   #321429  /  #193
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What the fuck have you people done to the "should I open my window" thread?
i looked back to see what you were talking about, good lord
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Old 4th April 2016, 02:11 AM   #321430  /  #194
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We're having a godamn blizzard.
It's been in the mid 60s and sunny for some time now here
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Old 4th April 2016, 09:49 PM   #321495  /  #195
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Shut. Up.

We had no power for hours and now 5 to 10 cm snow forecast tonight.
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Old 4th April 2016, 09:51 PM   #321496  /  #196
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Not as bad here but still wintry
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Old 4th April 2016, 10:48 PM   #321501  /  #197
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29 and sunny today.

Cold front arrives tonight. Winter conditions tomorrow - showers and 17C
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Old 5th April 2016, 12:19 AM   #321522  /  #198
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Goddammit.
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Old 5th April 2016, 12:28 AM   #321527  /  #199
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Old 5th April 2016, 12:34 AM   #321533  /  #200
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I dried some washing on the line this weekend!
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