Vaccine and Herd Immunity vs a Cold

[Zeluvia]

I have suspected that neither a vaccine nor herd immunity will work on the virus that causes Covid, because we haven't successfully managed any other milder coronaviruses. So like colds, the immunity would be short lived, and reinfection with another strain would be common.

[borealis]

My sound isn't working atm, but iirc, one of the hoped for results of a vaccine for covid-19 is that other strains would still be similar enough to be at least partly disabled by the vaccine, and the tendency of corona viruses to become less lethal as they mutate rather than more lethal. It's not in a virus' interests to kill off too many hosts.

Also colds do provide immunity of a sort to other colds. Childcare workers will tell you (and here it gets personal) that the first year of working with kids you catch every cold going, and there are many because you're gathering a bunch of snotty little kids in one big vat of infection, and are sick half the time, but by year two you catch way less colds, and by year three you rarely get sick at all. There's an uptick when school starts, and you might catch a brand new virus not previously widespread in the preschoolers, but even then chances are good that you won't be really ill.

That kind of immunity lasts several years after you leave the profession, ime. Even now, 15 years out of the business, I catch maybe 1 in 5 of the colds my husband brings home, and usually am less sick than him if I do catch one. (Manflu notwithstanding.)

[Zeluvia]

Originally Posted by borealis

My sound isn't working atm, but iirc, one of the hoped for results of a vaccine for covid-19 is that other strains would still be similar enough to be at least partly disabled by the vaccine, and the tendency of corona viruses to become less lethal as they mutate rather than more lethal. It's not in a virus' interests to kill off too many hosts.

Also colds do provide immunity of a sort to other colds. Childcare workers will tell you (and here it gets personal) that the first year of working with kids you catch every cold going, and there are many because you're gathering a bunch of snotty little kids in one big vat of infection, and are sick half the time, but by year two you catch way less colds, and by year three you rarely get sick at all. There's an uptick when school starts, and you might catch a brand new virus not previously widespread in the preschoolers, but even then chances are good that you won't be really ill.

That kind of immunity lasts several years after you leave the profession, ime. Even now, 15 years out of the business, I catch maybe 1 in 5 of the colds my husband brings home, and usually am less sick than him if I do catch one. (Manflu notwithstanding.)

Well I agree with this, to an extent. I don't tend to get colds anymore either, but the issue I see here is that it seems that previous life long exposure to multiple colds hasn't done anything for the immunity of the elder populations, although they do suspect one reason children are less affected is because they DO get colds often.


From what I am reading though the vast majority of colds, especially in children, are rhinovirus. And because rhinovirus also causes a cytokine storm, it could actually make the immune reaction to a subsequent Covid 19 infection worse, instead of better, which might explain some of the serious reactions we are seeing in some children.


It's gonna get worse I bet before it gets better.


PS the sound is just elevator music, you didn't miss anything : )

[MondoVman]

Not to wet blanket the (assumed) Hair On Fire response to the re-infection,

The re-infected dude is asymptomatic, but his balls are unusually itching, so there's that!

[Zeluvia]

It's not hair on fire, it's just that all the assumptions that it will be "over" at some point, or that a vaccine will "fix" it, don't seem realistic to me.

What concerns me most about the virus isn't that it kills older people, 80% of the dead are over 60, but the strange effects it seems to have on children and younger adults, the clotting, strokes, the lung, heart and kidney damage, ect, which could set them up to die the next time they get it.

I think it's one of those things that we are going to have to evolve with.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014...k-human-genome

and the counterpoint
https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/99/8/497/2258951



And yeah, Mondo, I know I am too old to evolve! I don't plan on going anywhere this winter but my yard : )

One of the women who delivered my groceries told me it doesn't kill white people = p, but I don't believe her, she had a MAGA hat.

You stay safe too!

On the bright side, with most of the deaths hitting 60 and over, it will probably help the Social Security solvency issues!

Oh yeah, another bright spot, we are getting a new DRIVE IN THEATER !!!

[MondoVman]

I have recently evolved to not tossing out the last of my gallon of milk
(sometimes a quart or more) simply because it smells a little funny.

Instead, I pour a few ounces into a glass and drink it in order to judge
the taste. If it tastes normal/yummy, I use it on my dry cereal,
and put the container back into the fridge. I get up to 3 or 4 more days
of that milk most times.



We absolutely must all get infected, because the next variation
will be even more devastating. The strong-enough will survive and
continue to re-populate/over-populate this place of Heavenly existence.

[Zeluvia]

Originally Posted by MondoVman

I have recently evolved to not tossing out the last of my gallon of milk
(sometimes a quart or more) simply because it smells a little funny.

Instead, I pour a few ounces into a glass and drink it in order to judge
the taste. If it tastes normal/yummy, I use it on my dry cereal,
and put the container back into the fridge. I get up to 3 or 4 more days
of that milk most times.



We absolutely must all get infected, because the next variation
will be even more devastating. The strong-enough will survive and
continue to re-populate/over-populate this place of Heavenly existence.

I used to get past expiration date dairy products for free. Milk is usually good a week after the date, it varies depending on how cold it has been kept, so the expiration date is on the safe side. That is true for ALL dairy products btw, and eggs.



I don't think I need to get infected. Sure, the young people do, but I was a germophobe hermit before Covid, so I think I can just keep hiding : )


It might catch me eventually, probably will, but ever since I had the flu in 2009 I have been a bit nuts about avoiding people anyway.




It's not strength that will determine survival. I say that because "The strong will survive" implies that there is a physical or personality characteristic you should have. It's a way of making some people sound superior to others.


But it's just genetics, dumb luck and a dice roll at the point of conception, and that doesn't mean shit as far as other characteristics. After all, sickle cell anemia is an adaptation to malaria iirc.

[borealis]

Also, everyone doesn't have to catch it. If you keep isolating tiny outbreaks, as NZ has done, and as the Atlantic provinces have done, eventually it should have no vectors to infect more people. And will die out.

It's mostly a problem in canada now because the US are being such idiots about it- sorry mondo and zel et al, but the border is closed for a reason. Unfortunately not closed quite enough.

[MondoVman]

No way does "strong enough" when written by ME means or implies personality.
Where the fuck do you get that thinking with a disease like the flu or cold?

Strong enough (to survive): genetics plus how well you've cared for your body.
Every single fat, obese, morbidly obese, type 2 diabetic (i.e. 90+% voluntary life-style)
person is/has already rolled 6-sided dice populated by a single dot on every side,
i.e. likely guaranteed to come up "snake eyes", otherwise known as "you loose, sucker"!

Congrats not getting the flu since 2009. May get my first flu shot since the 1990s.

[Zeluvia]

Mondo, I don't think that is exactly fair. But it's a personal thing, my father died from diabetes, my brother has been a diet controlled type 1 diabetic since he was 5.


Diabetes is a family thing. It's genetic for us. And because of that, we have NEVER followed the stupid lying industry generated food pyramid.



It's being proven over and over again that Ansel Keys was full of shit when he linked dietary fat to heart disease. He was right about one kind of fat, trans fat, a human created industry fat. But it is HIS recommendations that created the food pyramid, and replaced fat with sugar in our foods.



Your brain is 60% fat ffs.



And don't even get me started on the conspiracy to replace meat with plants. It's a plot to make us all stupid Eloi so the Morlocks can eat us in peace!


Plants make toxins naturally to AVOID being eaten!! Only some plants WANT parts of themselves to be eaten to spread their seeds.



http://centennial.rucares.org/index....erapy_Diabetes

[borealis]

Type 1 diabetes runs in my family too - my dad died as a result of it making a portion of his heart muscle unsurvivably necrotic. That man was never fat, never smoked, never drank, was physically very active, ate a healthy diet. My sister has an immune system problem, and is in the same category of never fat, physically fit, never drank, never smoked, healthy diet.

Luck of the draw shouldn't mean you just let some temporary threat like covid-19 kill you.

And frankly, neither does having committed the sin of not being strictly adherent to recommended healthy living warrant a death penalty.

Jesus Christ, people whose 'voluntary lifestyle' predisposes them to die from catching this disease more often than not had few choices or shitty educations or underlying mental/emotional/personal difficulties that made getting fat or getting addicted to something the least of their worries, the lesser evil of living their lives.

More online hate gets aimed at fat women than at frat boys who rape women or gun nuts whose kids accidentally shoot each other. If you aren't living an addicted or fat or unhealthy living person's life, and they aren't hurting anyone else, is it too much to ask that you don't also wish death on them from catching a contagious disease?

[Zeluvia]

https://nypost.com/2016/11/02/everyt...food-is-a-lie

[borealis]

Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.

[MondoVman]

The virus doesn't care about our feelings.

I wrote that everyone will be infected. You denied that with some personal
anecdote. Ok, so, everyone will be EXPOSED TO SOME DEGREE, given they
don't succeed at total seclusion.

People, lots and lots of people, are going to die.
One million? Ten million? 100 million? Know one knows. We hope it's not all of us.

Meanwhile, the first world countries have voluntarily destroyed their economic
engines. Jesus fucking Christ - people wanting to risk going to the gym have
the inherent right to do so, but city and state gov'ts say "no", and so small gym
owners are losing THEIR invested life savings, because gov't overrides
individuals exercising their free-will.

Your vulnerability means "wear a mask to protect yourself first, dummy,
against everyone who's infected."

I should be allowed to risk getting infected.

Dr. Fauci, head faggot, early on, vocally recommended sex between complete
strangers was fine. Very odd duck, is he.

[MondoVman]

By the way, the physician within my immediate family, an internist,
says that the risk of infection by manual contact (touching a surface,
then touching your eyes, nose or mouth) is VERY SMALL compared
to an infected person coughing in your face and you breathing in
a significant airborne dose (viral load).

This assumes one is not a careless moron and therefore insists on
touching every surface and item at the store, then neglects to
use a hand sanitizer. The medical community has being doing so
for years.

[Zeluvia]

I wasn't objecting to your take on it, I was objecting to your 90% personal responsibility comment about obese and diabetic people.


I don't think the first world did the wrong thing. Had the hospital systems become overwhelmed, then the deaths would have been much, much greater. We came close to full capacity here not too long ago, and in the Valley, they were basically telling old people to go home and die, because they WERE at capacity. Well, of course, not those that could afford to be airlifted HERE.


I think shutting down was a good thing, and not just because I am convinced that it did save lives. Yes I know there are a lot of people losing their businesses, my brother lost his. He managed to find something else to do. He also found work for his employees.


He would have lost his business anyway. He is in Florida, and it didn't shut down. People just wouldn't book trips, and he couldn't get into the Bahamas because they had a travel moratorium.



Imagine if we didn't shut down, and the hospitals did get overwhelmed, and more people died? People would have started avoiding business where you come in contact with other people anyway. Even after Abbott reopened the state, many people still avoided shopping and eating out because the numbers were still rising. Now that the mask order is in effect, and the numbers are decreasing, business is beginning to pick up.


People who bitch about the shut down and wearing masks are silly geese who lack the ability to imagine the alternative. The outcome would have economically been about the same, if not worse. And the death toll certainly would have been higher.

[borealis]

Originally Posted by MondoVman

By the way, the physician within my immediate family, an internist,
says that the risk of infection by manual contact (touching a surface,
then touching your eyes, nose or mouth) is VERY SMALL compared
to an infected person coughing in your face and you breathing in
a significant airborne dose (viral load).

This assumes one is not a careless moron and therefore insists on
touching every surface and item at the store, then neglects to
use a hand sanitizer. The medical community has being doing so
for years.

A personal anecdote from your doctor, cool.

The problem is still the asshole not wearing a mask and coughing in your face, even if you are wearing a mask.

And the whining about shutting down the economy. In places where we shut down early for a reasonable period, we do not have rampant widespread infection and businesses are open. And outbreaks are easily contained.