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Old 27th July 2018, 07:17 PM   #434947  /  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
I'm not whining, just not valuing your 'contribution' here.
Fair enough, but is there any reason why I should care about that?
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Old 27th July 2018, 07:54 PM   #434950  /  #27
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snowflake trigger warning: Incoming video



ETA: Darn it. The video content is excluded for some reason via our forum's handling.
Click the tweet (above) to see the complete post, i.e. Mehta's words and the video,
if you dare.
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Old 27th July 2018, 08:00 PM   #434951  /  #28
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Old 27th July 2018, 09:36 PM   #434954  /  #29
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Yes! I'm trying to understand your basis for declaring a "problem" when some demographic is under-represented (relative to the general population) in academic faculty.
This journal article which I am linking to now forms the basis for my declaring it a problem when academic environments are unrepresentative of the general population. Especially when academics carry out research on the students within the academic population and use that to make broad judgements about the population of the planet as a whole.

At the very least, a more diverse academic environment would improve the quality of research produced if academics continue to only use western students as their study subjects. Do read the article in full, it's fascinating. And then if you desire to learn more read Johnathon Haidts The Righteous Mind. It's one of those books that makes you critically evaluate what you've always believed to be true.

Quote:
How so?
Flat earthers are primarily a conspiracy theory group. I would have gone for climate change skeptics if positions were reversed.

Quote:
Maybe, but a different sort of problem. Previously we were talking about academia in general having a different demographic mix than the general populace does. This latest example is about a specific uni having a different demographic mix than academia in general does.

As it happens neoliberals are the dominant force in western university economic departments. They consider themselves mainstream and are sneeringly dismissive of 'heterodox' economists.

Quote:
Anyway, whatever problems we perceive (or imagine that we perceive), we also have to make sure that our proposed cure isn't worse than the disease. Government meddling in academic affairs (as the Conservatives now want to do) is generally a bad idea IMO.
What are they trying to do?

For me the issue is a lack of ideological diversity which can't be cured through a government making a law. It's a limitation that people in the academic environment should be aware of and account for.

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Old 27th July 2018, 11:00 PM   #434957  /  #30
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Originally Posted by MondoVman View Post
snowflake trigger warning: Incoming video



ETA: Darn it. The video content is excluded for some reason via our forum's handling.
Click the tweet (above) to see the complete post, i.e. Mehta's words and the video,
if you dare.
I read the tweets, but didn't see a video on it.

It looks like the discussion was around schools taking a firm side politically/ideologically. Not surprised. Most people think it's a good idea to exclude all political ideologies which aren't their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Facetious View Post
As it happens neoliberals are the dominant force in western university economic departments. They consider themselves mainstream and are sneeringly dismissive of 'heterodox' economists.
A lot like the sneering you get in a thread like this, from Bro D, neglecting to watch the video, but sneering at 'the right' for being 'bogus'.

Very well put, Facetious. I would say you may have understated the case a bit, but anyone who wants to can devise questions which could shed light on it.

What makes me laugh is how much MONEY is getting burned in the process...
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Old 28th July 2018, 01:21 AM   #434968  /  #31
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Lol, shadow banning extraordinaire Twitter ticker down 21% today

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Old 28th July 2018, 01:38 AM   #434969  /  #32
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...I read the tweets, but didn't see a video on it.
Heh, I was being super-cautious here re the snowflake sensitivity flare up itt.

A screenshot is arguably a type of video.

Ergo, the specific screenshot of Dialectic Sam's castigating tweet re Acadia U
that was excluded from the display of Rick Mehta's tweet in my post.

Do keep up (heh)
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Old 28th July 2018, 05:05 AM   #434982  /  #33
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Dude straight up threatened death on Mueller. The blowback was minor at best.
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Old 28th July 2018, 05:34 AM   #434985  /  #34
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Dude straight up threatened death on Mueller. The blowback was minor at best.
Which dude you talking about? James Woods? Is so, bwahaha re threats.
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Old 28th July 2018, 03:04 PM   #435000  /  #35
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No Alex Jones. Got removed from FB for a month but Youtube hasn't even taken the video down
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Old 28th July 2018, 03:05 PM   #435001  /  #36
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So anyone that wants to whine about "liberal media" censoring "free speech" should keep in mind that they're allowing a hard right conspiracy theorist to make death threats to a federal prosecutor without response
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Old 30th July 2018, 12:55 AM   #435055  /  #37
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Old 30th July 2018, 03:04 AM   #435062  /  #38
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No, activists should not determine what is taught anywhere.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Here in Texas the right and left have been battling over public school textbooks for decades. The right tends to ignore facts, and ignore and try to subvert peer review and vetting processes, and make publishers change things up to protect their sensibilities and moral stances and racist leanings. They try to rebrand things, fail to mention things, and whitewash things with language changes, and insert Biblical stuff where ever they can, like crediting Moses as a founder of the principle of law in a civics course. Their idea of free speech is the right to their own facts. That is not how it works.


So, no. Activists shouldn't get to determine anything. They are activists because they have a limited world view and a tight focus on protecting their world view from competition to keep their heads from exploding, much like fundamentalists.


Seriously we need to develop a drug for whatever is wrong with their brains.






https://notevenpast.org/textbooks-te...nal-resources
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Old 30th July 2018, 04:51 PM   #435077  /  #39
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Zeluvia, did you check out the video?

I don't disagree with you at all, but it seems that, while it is pretty clear where to draw the line, and say the 'right' has gone too far, it's a bit tougher to say where the left does.

I think some of what is happening to Professor Mehta is an example of the left going too far, but all anyone wants to say in this thread is how 'right is wrong'.

Can you check out the vid, and weigh in on what Mehta said? Or is only the right worthy of criticism in this context?
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Old 30th July 2018, 06:11 PM   #435082  /  #40
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Zeluvia, did you check out the video?

I don't disagree with you at all, but it seems that, while it is pretty clear where to draw the line, and say the 'right' has gone too far, it's a bit tougher to say where the left does.

I think some of what is happening to Professor Mehta is an example of the left going too far, but all anyone wants to say in this thread is how 'right is wrong'.

Can you check out the vid, and weigh in on what Mehta said? Or is only the right worthy of criticism in this context?

I don't have the patience for videos, summarize it. There are nuts on both extremes. It's just lately the right has been more afraid, and therefore more vocal. Fear is the motivator.
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Old 30th July 2018, 06:46 PM   #435084  /  #41
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Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

I don't have the patience for videos, summarize it. There are nuts on both extremes. It's just lately the right has been more afraid, and therefore more vocal. Fear is the motivator.
A lack of viewpoint diversity in universities is hindering free speech.

One example he discusses is 'de-colonizing'. He points out that the people speaking for indiginous groups are not elected, but are treated like they are representing their group. He also points out how difficult it is for anyone to criticise the effort.

You are welcome to show him incorrect, by offering fair and respectful criticisms of it. I haven't heard many views other than 'colonization is bad' and 'de-colonization is required'.

Tell me, you have been pretty comfortable criticising the right for going too far. Why do you suppose it is so rare to hear you criticising the left for going too far (as they surely must do)

Hearing him avoid discussing his arbitration case (if there is one) at the end of his talk is a pretty clear example of the chilling effect of these academic bullies.
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Old 30th July 2018, 07:00 PM   #435086  /  #42
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From another article.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...s-rebutted.php
Quote:
at Arcadia College in Nova Scotia, where the sanguine professor Sachs teaches, an associate professor of psychology, Rick Mehta, is under investigation for voicing conservative opinions in his classroom. His department head complained that some of his students refuse to come to class because the experience of listening to him talk about why the gender wage gap is exaggerated produces too much anxiety. A professor of social work says that Mehta’s opinion “does border on hate speech.”
Why would the amount of anxiety produced by a discussion have any bearing on it's acceptance into a class about PSYCHOLOGY?

Why would it be so difficult for him to make the point that 'not everyone who went to residential schools had a terrible time'?

Personally, I have met several people who experienced residential school. One in particular comes to mind. He stayed at Grollier Hall (Inuvik), loved his time there, and also loved the giant cash settlement he got through the government apology.

The year the government issued its formal apology, the local Catholic School Board had an ad-campaign which read 'Celebrating 60 years of Catholic Education'. I'm pretty convinced it was a rude response. Nearly convinced it was deliberate.
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Old 31st July 2018, 06:33 PM   #435151  /  #43
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So anyone that wants to whine about "liberal media" censoring "free speech" should keep in mind that they're allowing a hard right conspiracy theorist to make death threats to a federal prosecutor without response
I think the problem is that 'liberal media' includes nearly all the social media platforms, and their 'secret algorythms' seem to target one side of the political discussion as 'hate speech'.

I'm very happy that hate speech is allowed here. Surely you can see the value of allowing discussion. Would you be whining about 'conservative media' if your conservative politicians were funding the national news agency, and universities, to promote their sketchy ideals?

Many of the issues being pushed by CBC, Universities and Human Rights Gangsters are not things which have been decided by vote, but things which have been decreed by government.

We have gov't ordered social changes being accepted as if they aren't coming from 'the Man'. It's weird for me to see, since I was indoctrinated for so long to think of 'the Man' (gov't / authority) with suspicion...
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Old 31st July 2018, 07:10 PM   #435152  /  #44
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DO you disagree there is a lot of hate speech coming from the right?
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Old 31st July 2018, 07:13 PM   #435153  /  #45
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Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

I don't have the patience for videos, summarize it. There are nuts on both extremes. It's just lately the right has been more afraid, and therefore more vocal. Fear is the motivator.
A lack of viewpoint diversity in universities is hindering free speech.

One example he discusses is 'de-colonizing'. He points out that the people speaking for indiginous groups are not elected, but are treated like they are representing their group. He also points out how difficult it is for anyone to criticise the effort.

You are welcome to show him incorrect, by offering fair and respectful criticisms of it. I haven't heard many views other than 'colonization is bad' and 'de-colonization is required'.

Tell me, you have been pretty comfortable criticising the right for going too far. Why do you suppose it is so rare to hear you criticising the left for going too far (as they surely must do)

Hearing him avoid discussing his arbitration case (if there is one) at the end of his talk is a pretty clear example of the chilling effect of these academic bullies.

Probably because here in Texas, the Right is heavy with Christian Fundamentalists. Needless to say, I have issues with their worldview, because it tends to deny facts, and science, and women's right to an abortion. It is also heavy with racists. Here, they like to call themselves Libertarians too, but they are not social libertarians, they don't believe in personal freedom to smoke pot, or be a prostitute, but they do believe in personal freedom to educate their children at home, and carry guns. They also think freedom of speech covers putting the Bible back in schools, and teaching creation. Their idea of Libertarianism is every man for himself social Darwinism, with no government aid of any kind for anyone but corporations, and all personal aid being delivered privately by churches and charities. They are against gay marriage. They interfere with everyone else's rights while at the same time screaming they are victims of the liberal media. Which is funny, because most of the media in Texas is Right leaning, except in the blue areas. All major cities in Texas are blue, or liberal leaning, and all the rural areas are red, or right leaning, but the Right controls most media, most businesses, and the majority of the government.


There is no counter point crazy on the left here, the left is so outnumbered it just tries to steer for the middle. Most of the "left" in Texas is represented by black and Hispanic and Asian populations, and those fucking pot smoking Hippies in Austin and San Antonio.


So, when you say Right, I think this is what you are talking about. How would you characterize the Right where you are? What do they stand for? What are their rallying points? Their economic outlook? Their social agenda or set of beliefs? What is their world view based on?
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Old 31st July 2018, 07:25 PM   #435155  /  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

I don't have the patience for videos, summarize it. There are nuts on both extremes. It's just lately the right has been more afraid, and therefore more vocal. Fear is the motivator.
A lack of viewpoint diversity in universities is hindering free speech.

One example he discusses is 'de-colonizing'. He points out that the people speaking for indiginous groups are not elected, but are treated like they are representing their group. He also points out how difficult it is for anyone to criticise the effort.

You are welcome to show him incorrect, by offering fair and respectful criticisms of it. I haven't heard many views other than 'colonization is bad' and 'de-colonization is required'.

Tell me, you have been pretty comfortable criticising the right for going too far. Why do you suppose it is so rare to hear you criticising the left for going too far (as they surely must do)

Hearing him avoid discussing his arbitration case (if there is one) at the end of his talk is a pretty clear example of the chilling effect of these academic bullies.

Okay I think the subject is bullshit. It's code for some agenda. You are going to have to spell out exactly what is meant by De Colonization. Colonization is a horse that has left the building with Elvis, so what the fuck does De Colonization actually mean? In practical terms. What is being DONE? What do people WANT to do?


Colonization was certainly not a good thing for the people being colonized. No one liked it when the Romans did it. People weren't real happy when Alexander the Great did it. De-colonization wasn't very pretty either. No one was happy with the Vikings and the Gauls and the Huns and the Barbarians running around liberating shit.



What colonization did, besides wipe people out with diseases, was exploit an uneven power match. The effect of this was to interrupt what might have been natural development of native civilizations. If you look at the development of China and Japan, who were geographically isolated, you can see that they did just fine without being colonized. And yet, internal to China they ran their own colonizing dramas. You can make the argument that some populations might have never developed technologically without colonization, but then you look where technology got us, and wonder if someone might have discovered a better way to do things if left alone.


But like I said, that horse has left the building. It's too late to find out now. The groups of indigenous peoples still around in the world that have not been affected by colonization are so few and far between that they will never get an opportunity to develop on their own lines.


So, back to my question, what does De Colonization mean?
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Old 31st July 2018, 07:32 PM   #435157  /  #47
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DO you disagree there is a lot of hate speech coming from the right?
I disagree that there is hate speech at all.

Hate is an emotion, not an action of some kind.

If you want to use a legal definition, then we could evaluate speeches from both sides, and compare, but I think it is pretty meaningless, when one 'side' can often decide what counts as 'hate speech'. (for example, is the quran calling for the deaths of infidels 'hate speech'? Would I be likely to answer differently than a Catholic Bishop or a Mullah?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

I don't have the patience for videos, summarize it. There are nuts on both extremes. It's just lately the right has been more afraid, and therefore more vocal. Fear is the motivator.
A lack of viewpoint diversity in universities is hindering free speech.

One example he discusses is 'de-colonizing'. He points out that the people speaking for indiginous groups are not elected, but are treated like they are representing their group. He also points out how difficult it is for anyone to criticise the effort.

You are welcome to show him incorrect, by offering fair and respectful criticisms of it. I haven't heard many views other than 'colonization is bad' and 'de-colonization is required'.

Tell me, you have been pretty comfortable criticising the right for going too far. Why do you suppose it is so rare to hear you criticising the left for going too far (as they surely must do)

Hearing him avoid discussing his arbitration case (if there is one) at the end of his talk is a pretty clear example of the chilling effect of these academic bullies.

Probably because here in Texas, the Right is heavy with Christian Fundamentalists. Needless to say, I have issues with their worldview, because it tends to deny facts, and science, and women's right to an abortion. It is also heavy with racists. Here, they like to call themselves Libertarians too, but they are not social libertarians, they don't believe in personal freedom to smoke pot, or be a prostitute, but they do believe in personal freedom to educate their children at home, and carry guns. They also think freedom of speech covers putting the Bible back in schools, and teaching creation. Their idea of Libertarianism is every man for himself social Darwinism, with no government aid of any kind for anyone but corporations, and all personal aid being delivered privately by churches and charities.


There is no counter point crazy on the left here, the left is so outnumbered it just tries to steer for the middle.


So, when you say Right, I think this is what you are talking about. How would you characterize the Right where you are? What do they stand for? What are their rallying points? Their economic outlook? Their social agenda or set of beliefs? What is their world view based on?
Fuck, I don't even know, Zeluvia.

I think freedom of speech MUST include speaking out against bullshit, and there is PLENTY of bullshit on both sides.

So why is it so hard for you to identify when the left 'goes too far'?

I think it's a problem with everyone, not just those who identify as on the left.

What are rallying points of the right? I guess nothing. We have a hilarious idiot in charge now (Ms. Trudeau leading the Liberal Party of Canada) and even with such a universally hated lout running the country, I can't name the opposition.

What I am concerned with is that the left, now that they are in charge, don't see themselves as authoritarian bullies.

They ARE. Look into what Professor Mehta is going through, and what he is saying, and you will see what I mean. I doubt he is 'conservative of politics', but he is certainly being treated like an 'enemy'.

I once heard that people should never support a law, unless they were personally willing to kill for it. The reason given was that when the justice system 'goes after' someone, it is pretty much just as bad as killing (certainly can be).

I do know that being on the wrong side of that system ruins your life. Because of that, I think less laws are better. I think protecting someone based on gender, race, religion or disability is a terrible idea, when it would be simpler to protect humans.

But we keep having legislators here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_103) take sides...often against reason.

For instance, islamophobia isn't well described, but it IS used in government to describe anything which might make a Muslim uncomfortable. (it is still ok to have whitemanophobia, or christianophobia, or real psychiatric disorders which use the same verbiage)

As to 'counter-point crazy on the left', there is PLENTY. Lots of crazy people at the extreme ends of both political spectrums.

My contention is that you CAN'T criticise them without making yourself look like a hater. Give it a try, and if you are honest, you might see what I mean.
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Old 31st July 2018, 07:37 PM   #435158  /  #48
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Okay I think the subject is bullshit. It's code for some agenda. You are going to have to spell out exactly what is meant by De Colonization. Colonization is a horse that has left the building with Elvis, so what the fuck does De Colonization actually mean? In practical terms. What is being DONE? What do people WANT to do?
Since the university 'gestapo' won't say exactly which of his statements is problematic, we are left guessing...

The subject IS bullshit, but it doesn't matter, because the government and universities are pushing it, and if you disagree, you are a hater.

If you question, you are a hater.
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Old 31st July 2018, 07:38 PM   #435160  /  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Okay I think the subject is bullshit. It's code for some agenda. You are going to have to spell out exactly what is meant by De Colonization. Colonization is a horse that has left the building with Elvis, so what the fuck does De Colonization actually mean? In practical terms. What is being DONE? What do people WANT to do?
Since the university 'gestapo' won't say exactly which of his statements is problematic, we are left guessing...

The subject IS bullshit, but it doesn't matter, because the government and universities are pushing it, and if you disagree, you are a hater.

If you question, you are a hater.

No, you need to go look at what DE COLONIZATION means. If he is pushing against it, someone is pushing for it. Don't be lazy.


Also, to piss IMP off, I heavily edit my posts after posting them, so go back and read them : )


And answer the questions !
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Old 31st July 2018, 07:40 PM   #435162  /  #50
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
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DO you disagree there is a lot of hate speech coming from the right?
I disagree that there is hate speech at all.

Hate is an emotion, not an action of some kind.

If you want to use a legal definition, then we could evaluate speeches from both sides, and compare, but I think it is pretty meaningless, when one 'side' can often decide what counts as 'hate speech'. (for example, is the quran calling for the deaths of infidels 'hate speech'? Would I be likely to answer differently than a Catholic Bishop or a Mullah?)

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I don't have the patience for videos, summarize it. There are nuts on both extremes. It's just lately the right has been more afraid, and therefore more vocal. Fear is the motivator.
A lack of viewpoint diversity in universities is hindering free speech.

One example he discusses is 'de-colonizing'. He points out that the people speaking for indiginous groups are not elected, but are treated like they are representing their group. He also points out how difficult it is for anyone to criticise the effort.

You are welcome to show him incorrect, by offering fair and respectful criticisms of it. I haven't heard many views other than 'colonization is bad' and 'de-colonization is required'.

Tell me, you have been pretty comfortable criticising the right for going too far. Why do you suppose it is so rare to hear you criticising the left for going too far (as they surely must do)

Hearing him avoid discussing his arbitration case (if there is one) at the end of his talk is a pretty clear example of the chilling effect of these academic bullies.

Probably because here in Texas, the Right is heavy with Christian Fundamentalists. Needless to say, I have issues with their worldview, because it tends to deny facts, and science, and women's right to an abortion. It is also heavy with racists. Here, they like to call themselves Libertarians too, but they are not social libertarians, they don't believe in personal freedom to smoke pot, or be a prostitute, but they do believe in personal freedom to educate their children at home, and carry guns. They also think freedom of speech covers putting the Bible back in schools, and teaching creation. Their idea of Libertarianism is every man for himself social Darwinism, with no government aid of any kind for anyone but corporations, and all personal aid being delivered privately by churches and charities.


There is no counter point crazy on the left here, the left is so outnumbered it just tries to steer for the middle.


So, when you say Right, I think this is what you are talking about. How would you characterize the Right where you are? What do they stand for? What are their rallying points? Their economic outlook? Their social agenda or set of beliefs? What is their world view based on?
Fuck, I don't even know, Zeluvia.

I think freedom of speech MUST include speaking out against bullshit, and there is PLENTY of bullshit on both sides.

So why is it so hard for you to identify when the left 'goes too far'?

I think it's a problem with everyone, not just those who identify as on the left.

What are rallying points of the right? I guess nothing. We have a hilarious idiot in charge now (Ms. Trudeau leading the Liberal Party of Canada) and even with such a universally hated lout running the country, I can't name the opposition.

What I am concerned with is that the left, now that they are in charge, don't see themselves as authoritarian bullies.

They ARE. Look into what Professor Mehta is going through, and what he is saying, and you will see what I mean. I doubt he is 'conservative of politics', but he is certainly being treated like an 'enemy'.

I once heard that people should never support a law, unless they were personally willing to kill for it. The reason given was that when the justice system 'goes after' someone, it is pretty much just as bad as killing (certainly can be).

I do know that being on the wrong side of that system ruins your life. Because of that, I think less laws are better. I think protecting someone based on gender, race, religion or disability is a terrible idea, when it would be simpler to protect humans.

But we keep having legislators here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_103) take sides...often against reason.

For instance, islamophobia isn't well described, but it IS used in government to describe anything which might make a Muslim uncomfortable. (it is still ok to have whitemanophobia, or christianophobia, or real psychiatric disorders which use the same verbiage)

As to 'counter-point crazy on the left', there is PLENTY. Lots of crazy people at the extreme ends of both political spectrums.

My contention is that you CAN'T criticise them without making yourself look like a hater. Give it a try, and if you are honest, you might see what I mean.

Dude, there is no left here to criticize. Tell me what you consider to be RIGHT?
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