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Old 15th January 2020, 07:44 PM   #455572  /  #76
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I mean, he got rich writing a book, right? It's not like he went from the presidency to buying a multimillion dollar beachfront property...It's not like he got rich being in a political position.

If someone can get that rich off a few years in the Presidency, and still have the love of the people, imagine how rich someone could get with DECADES in the higher levels of government! Is Pelosi rich? Is her wealth because of strong personal financial stewardship? Or because she is on the take?
AFAICT you have to be independently wealthy to enter US federal politics in the first place. The Obamas were wealthy before Barack entered the presidential race. Most reliable sites say he was worth $5 to 6 million at the time. Michelle's worth is less easy to know as a private individual (not a politician). As they became famous, of course his earlier book became way more popular, and current estimates of their wealth hover between $10 and 20 million. Still not billionaires.

Pelosi (and her husband) were also reputedly wealthy before she entered politics, mostly through real estate and investment.

There's no doubt becoming famous, politically or otherwise, leads to increased wealth, but it does not necessarily mean that wealth is obtained fraudulently or through shady dealing, though that also happens.

I think your interpretation of Marie Yovanovitch's experiences or the current set of revelations make much sense. I dunno, maybe read more widely.

As an aside, I've seen you a couple times say your browser blocks twitter. Afaik, at some point you would have had to choose the option to block twitter, as no browser I know of auto-blocks twitter.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:01 PM   #455573  /  #77
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Originally Posted by borealis View Post
As an aside, I've seen you a couple times say your browser blocks twitter. Afaik, at some point you would have had to choose the option to block twitter, as no browser I know of auto-blocks twitter.
Firefox has a setting called "Enhanced Tracking Protection". If that is on, then links to twitter get blocked. You can turn it off for specific websites, which is what I do for twitter on MR.

Chrome may have a similar setting, but I configured Chrome so long ago that I'd have to go digging to the config to figure what settings might cause a similar issue.

I've stopped using Chrome altogether due to the rather aggressive tracking that it allows. If you like Chrome but don't like the level of tracking protection available, Brave is built on Chrome and works with Chrome addons, but intentionally disables the non-cookie tracking that Chrome intentionally enables.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:14 PM   #455574  /  #78
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I think your interpretation of Marie Yovanovitch's experiences or the current set of revelations make much sense. I dunno, maybe read more widely.
I don't remember exactly, but her 'testimony' was about the weight I would give to any 'I heard someone say that...'

Hearsay, and nothing direct or clear.

But she was clearly saying things damaging to Trump. Good thing he isn't a fascist, or she would be in danger of getting 'Clintoned'.
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As an aside, I've seen you a couple times say your browser blocks twitter. Afaik, at some point you would have had to choose the option to block twitter, as no browser I know of auto-blocks twitter.
I've been using Brave, as ob mentions, and I don't disagree that twitter links are garbage, so never really tried to change it.

I wish it would leave a x or something to indicate it was blocked though...it just disappears and can affect context. Now that I know it's happening, not as much though.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:40 PM   #455576  /  #79
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I think you aren't giving Yovanovich the serious attention she deserves, but that's not unexpected. you seem mightily conflicted about women sometimes.

That said, Mr. Hyde is certifiably bonkers and has the history to prove it. But Prnas wouldn't necessarily know that and Hyde seems to have been part of the Trump-Giuliani good ol' boys cabal. Remember, before Yovanovich was recalled, Trump publicly said of her "She's gonna go through some things". Note also, she was warned to immediately leave Ukraine by a friend, and that night she was hosting a memorial for civic activist Katya Handziuk, murdered by an acid attack.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/hell-o...cid-in-ukraine
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:59 PM   #455577  /  #80
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I think you aren't giving Yovanovich the serious attention she deserves, but that's not unexpected. you seem mightily conflicted about women sometimes.
Let's pretend what her personal pronouns are (or whatever is in her crotch) doesn't matter.

What did she present to that hearing, that was important? Which facts (ignore hearsay) did I miss?

Or am I supposed to have more sympathy because she claims to be female?
Quote:

That said, Mr. Hyde is certifiably bonkers and has the history to prove it. But Prnas wouldn't necessarily know that and Hyde seems to have been part of the Trump-Giuliani good ol' boys cabal. Remember, before Yovanovich was recalled, Trump publicly said of her "She's gonna go through some things". Note also, she was warned to immediately leave Ukraine by a friend, and that night she was hosting a memorial for civic activist Katya Handziuk, murdered by an acid attack.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/hell-o...cid-in-ukraine
Don't know those others, just remembered her testimony being all useless as far as illuminating any facts.

Maybe she DID present some facts, refresh my memory.

Also, what do you think of the difference between her treatment, and Snowden or Assange? Are they all under some sort of threat? Is she hiding out in a foreign embassy? Another country? Or safe at home in the US?

Does Assange deserve to be treated worse than her?


This woman in the story certainly didn't deserve to be murdered by acid, but the connections are a bit tenuous. There are shit attacks on innocents in California, but blaming Trump for them would be a bit of a stretch. You would need...what is it again...evidence.

On the other hand, you could get a large chunk of the public agreeing that the shit attacks were Trumps fault.

This article tells a horrible story, but doesn't connect it to Trump very firmly.

Once again, what did the fired ambassador say under oath, that was relevant? Or should I just wait until the proper trial, with cross-examinations instead of narratives?
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Old 16th January 2020, 03:40 AM   #455584  /  #81
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Cunt. FFS.



Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Zlochevsky






https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukr...dymyr-Zelensky
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Old 16th January 2020, 06:51 AM   #455585  /  #82
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Let's suppose that the CIA and others did interfere in Ukrainian politics in order to oust a pro Russia government in favor of a Pro NATO/US government?


Wouldn't it make sense then for Russia to interfere in US elections to help elect a Pro Russia person?


Seriously Cunt, quit fucking around with high school level gossip and PAY FUCKING ATTENTION to Energy policies, MONEY, and FINANCES, and where the POWER is, and quit reading shit that just confirms what you believe for your own stupid emotional reasons and TRY TO FUCKING THINK!


The people in the news for the most part don't matter one fucking bit.
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Old 16th January 2020, 07:15 AM   #455586  /  #83
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Let's suppose that the CIA and others did interfere in Ukrainian politics in order to oust a pro Russia government in favor of a Pro NATO/US government?
That's quite a theory. I'm ok with pretending with you, but I hope you didn't think I suggested that.

I just said the testimony I saw her make was shit, and it didn't have anything substantive to it. Maybe I missed something...

Quote:
Wouldn't it make sense then for Russia to interfere in US elections to help elect a Pro Russia person?
My guess is that Russia interferes to promote any chaos it can in US elections. As to which candidates are cozy with Russia - BOTH sides look pretty Russia-positive.
[/quote]
Seriously Cunt, quit fucking around with high school level gossip and PAY FUCKING ATTENTION to Energy policies, MONEY, and FINANCES, and where the POWER is, and quit reading shit that just confirms what you believe for your own stupid emotional reasons and TRY TO FUCKING THINK![/quote]

Seriously, do the same.

I'm being led to believe that Trump calling for investigation into the Bidens connections to this are worth impeaching him over (without a specific crime of any kind) but the connection itself (Hunter getting paid hugely from Burisma) is NOT important...

Don't believe it.

For awhile now, I have believed the same thing - both sides are screeching for investigation of the others' corruption, both screeching for justice. If I'm right about that, and the skills of average investigators, then they'll all get plenty.

Quote:
The people in the news for the most part don't matter one fucking bit.
Like the Biden family connection to Burisma?

Do you think they'll investigate it like RICO? That is Rudy's background, isn't it?

We'll see soon. Pelosi finally (shakily, weirdly) handed off the thing to the grown-ups.

Now both sides get to be interrogated. (if it isn't dismissed by turtle-man first)
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Old 16th January 2020, 02:14 PM   #455588  /  #84
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Dear Zeluvia,


Why?
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Old 16th January 2020, 04:46 PM   #455589  /  #85
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Seriously Cunt, quit fucking around with high school level gossip and PAY FUCKING ATTENTION to Energy policies, MONEY, and FINANCES, and where the POWER is,
I was paying attention to the testimony of a witness, and when I pointed out that nothing she said was strong enough evidence to make an impeachment, you jumped in with this Ukraine study program.

What would the difference be? If I believe wikipedia, that ex-ambassador still presented what she presented at the hearing. If I don't believe wikipedia - same same.

You do get it, don't you? She didn't have any weighty evidence to offer (at least in her testimony)

So how would the history of Ukraine-Russia relations change that?

Quote:

and quit reading shit that just confirms what you believe for your own stupid emotional reasons and TRY TO FUCKING THINK!
I have thought. Thought about this since last night.

You sound like you are trying to convince me of something...what is it?

That her testimony had something important in it I missed? If so, what was it? Because everyone heard all the testimony, and there still are no 'high crimes or misdemeanors' listed in those dogshit articles of impeachment...
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Old 16th January 2020, 10:44 PM   #455596  /  #86
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Well it was borealis that brought up the ambassador and impeachment.


Not me. You were talking to me about foreign aid, and I pointed out that the "corruption" of Burisma had nothing to do with foreign aid money.
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Old 17th January 2020, 12:08 AM   #455597  /  #87
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Well it was borealis that brought up the ambassador and impeachment.


Not me. You were talking to me about foreign aid, and I pointed out that the "corruption" of Burisma had nothing to do with foreign aid money.
OK, so Biden Sr. says he will withold foreign aid unless a prosecutor is fired. That prosecutor was apparently investigating Burisma, where Biden Jr. worked.

So nothing to do with foreign aid? I get that he might be wrong about that view on things (just like the Pelosi's view may be wrong) but isn't that the whole claim being made (almost made) ? If not, what would you say IS Trumps claims about this?

And WWIII is either already happening (since about 2016) or it hasn't started yet, depending on who you read.

I hope we can start making fun of our Iranian friends again soon. Man it's easy to forget how much it sucks...I hope this isn't the end of what we learn about the crash. It seems surreal...but it's not the worst of it, just a large incident. Lots of protesters over there get shit on, and a bunch are tweeting with hashtags like fuck pelosi or something. Handwriting the notes, then sending them, to show they aren't 'bots'. (I guess she has been a bit ignorant in her comments about the incident)

Anyway, reading some of those notes, seeing the handwriting...it's easy to forget how real people are. Makes me wish we could fit a bunch more Persian immigrants. I've liked the ones I've met so far. Nice to look at, darned free with their food. Seems shit to have to live under a government that is incompetent and fearless about killing citizens.
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Old 17th January 2020, 04:04 AM   #455600  /  #88
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Biden said he would withhold loan guarantees. It's not the same as withholding foreign aid exactly.



The prosecutor that Biden wanted fired was Viktor Shokin. Shokin took over from Viktor Pshonka. Pshonka had started investigating Burisma in 2010. Shokin took over in 2015. Shokin stated that Pshonka investigative files were "lost". There were protests in Ukraine against Shokin, and the EU wanted him out.



Now it is important to remember what I told you about the change in government, which happened in February of 2014, and Hunter Biden joined Burisma in March of 2014.


So, no, Burisma wasn't under investigation by Shokin. If anything, Shokin was trying to bury any investigation INTO Burisma.



This is the problem with Trump's claim. It doesn't make sense. Trump also claims he was withholding foreign aid until corruption had been investigated, as though the foreign aid was somehow involved in the corruption, but the "corruption" everyone was upset about had to do with money laundering, business deals with Russia, and most importantly,



1. Myloka Zlochevsky is the owner of Burisma, a large natural gas and oil company


2. Myloka Zlochevsky was also the Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources.


What Myloka was doing was using his public office to give his private company licenses and leases for oil and gas exploration and extraction and using his office to enrich himself. He has been accused of bribery, graft, and embezzlement of government funds, as well as money laundering and assisting countries with avoiding sanctions. THAT is the corruption that was being investigated from 2010-2012.



So in 2014, the government changed from Pro Russia to Pro Nato/USA, The UK started an investigation of Burisma over money laundering, the investigations for the corruption from 2010-2012 were ongoing, and Hunter Biden joined the board. About a month after Hunter joined the board, the UK froze 23 million dollars in Burisma assets, and requested records from the Ukraine Prosecutors office. Those records were never given to the UK. At the end of 2014, Zlochevsky fled the Ukraine, and in 2015
prosecutor Shokin took over the prosecutors office and said the records (2010-2012) were "missing".


So Nothing Trump's team is saying makes any sense whatsoever.
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Old 17th January 2020, 05:27 AM   #455601  /  #89
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So Nothing Trump's team is saying makes any sense whatsoever.
If all that were true, we would have to believe that Hunter was working for the US Feds (alphabet agency or special ops) and NOT getting those giant checks for anything suspicious.

And we would have to believe that everyone on the blue side of the senate votes blue, and the red side votes red. Not much blurring, so either a heck of a coincidence, or lots of people are betting their careers and about to fail.

Not that being wrong seems to hurt politicians.

Anyway, we will see when the grown-ups get a chance to call and cross-examine real witnesses, rather than the gossip of the early impeachment.

This should shed some light on whether the Biden family earned money honestly in Ukraine, or if something more complicated happened.
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Old 18th January 2020, 06:18 AM   #455650  /  #90
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Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

So Nothing Trump's team is saying makes any sense whatsoever.
If all that were true, we would have to believe that Hunter was working for the US Feds (alphabet agency or special ops) and NOT getting those giant checks for anything suspicious.

And we would have to believe that everyone on the blue side of the senate votes blue, and the red side votes red. Not much blurring, so either a heck of a coincidence, or lots of people are betting their careers and about to fail.

Not that being wrong seems to hurt politicians.

Anyway, we will see when the grown-ups get a chance to call and cross-examine real witnesses, rather than the gossip of the early impeachment.

This should shed some light on whether the Biden family earned money honestly in Ukraine, or if something more complicated happened.

Dude, how does any of this follow what I said with the dates of the investigations and who was doing the investigating? Those are FACTS.


check the fucking time line again.



I don't get your A to B logic. From what I read, Hunter and his buddy Archer were both paid 83,000 a month for the 16 months they were on the board, through their company Rosemont Seneca Bohai LTD.
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Old 18th January 2020, 06:54 AM   #455659  /  #91
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Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post

So Nothing Trump's team is saying makes any sense whatsoever.
If all that were true, we would have to believe that Hunter was working for the US Feds (alphabet agency or special ops) and NOT getting those giant checks for anything suspicious.

And we would have to believe that everyone on the blue side of the senate votes blue, and the red side votes red. Not much blurring, so either a heck of a coincidence, or lots of people are betting their careers and about to fail.

Not that being wrong seems to hurt politicians.

Anyway, we will see when the grown-ups get a chance to call and cross-examine real witnesses, rather than the gossip of the early impeachment.

This should shed some light on whether the Biden family earned money honestly in Ukraine, or if something more complicated happened.

Dude, how does any of this follow what I said with the dates of the investigations and who was doing the investigating? Those are FACTS.


check the fucking time line again.



I don't get your A to B logic. From what I read, Hunter and his buddy Archer were both paid 83,000 a month for the 16 months they were on the board, through their company Rosemont Seneca Bohai LTD.
I think that rings with the amount so far documented.

I don't know what you are trying to paint with your timeline. My understanding is that the Dems screeched 'IMPEACH THE MOTHERFUCKER' right before Trump was installed, and they have changed the reason a few times before landing on this Ukraine thing.

Makes focus on the details frustrating. I think you are suggesting there is something about THIS incident which is truly important. Sure, there might be. It's hard to not dismiss it as mostly political theatre though. Maybe I AM missing something about the dates...

What's impeachable?
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Old 18th January 2020, 11:42 AM   #455668  /  #92
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Your understanding is wrong. No one was shouting Impeach the Motherfucker, at least not anyone that counted. People that didn't like Obama wanted him Impeached too, remember Trump and the whole birth certificate thing? So that is just bullshit talking points again that mean nothing, which is what I am used to hearing you say.


And how the fuck does yelling Impeach the Motherfucker have anything to do with what we were talking about? I don't see the connection.


I was answering why Trump's crap about Joe Biden trying to get the prosecutor fired had nothing to do with protecting his son. That is what the time line points out. I am beginning to think you may be seriously impaired beyond just being stoned while posting.


Why don't you go look up why people say it is an impeachable offense, or you can continue to pretend you are having a conversation when all you are really doing is being a right wing parrot troll ; )


And then go back and explain your logic here:


If all that were true, we would have to believe that Hunter was working for the US Feds (alphabet agency or special ops) and NOT getting those giant checks for anything suspicious.

And we would have to believe that everyone on the blue side of the senate votes blue, and the red side votes red. Not much blurring, so either a heck of a coincidence, or lots of people are betting their careers and about to fail.



Because I dont see how those things follow from either the conversation or from one another.
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Old 21st January 2020, 03:10 PM   #455699  /  #93
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Commence pissing contest

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...144819073.html

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Old 21st January 2020, 04:41 PM   #455703  /  #94
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Your understanding is wrong. No one was shouting Impeach the Motherfucker, at least not anyone that counted.
That senator (the Squad Member from Palestine...is that Baby or Ginger?) who famously said 'impeach the motherfucker' is indeed someone who doesn't count.

Pelosi stating that she has been working on impeachment for 2.5 years (long before this started) is also someone who doesn't count.

So agreed so far.

That leaves Schiff. Sure hope the rumours about him being caught up in the Ed Buck scandal aren't going to make him 'not count' or there simply won't be anyone left...
Quote:


People that didn't like Obama wanted him Impeached too, remember Trump and the whole birth certificate thing? So that is just bullshit talking points again that mean nothing, which is what I am used to hearing you say.
Lots of people think Obama was trash. They also weren't any more satisfied with his documentation about his origin, than Trump critics are satisfied with his financial disclosures.
Quote:
And how the fuck does yelling Impeach the Motherfucker have anything to do with what we were talking about? I don't see the connection.
Because the Dems have been shitting themselves trying to do nothing BUT remove Trump since they lost the last election. (I think they lost, rather than Trump winning)

It means that no matter WHAT happens, they will continue to screech and impeach. Makes it tough to take them seriously.
Quote:


I was answering why Trump's crap about Joe Biden trying to get the prosecutor fired had nothing to do with protecting his son. That is what the time line points out. I am beginning to think you may be seriously impaired beyond just being stoned while posting.
Do you mean the timeline points to Hunter coming in AFTER Dad demanded the removal of that investigator?

I honestly think it will come out in the trial, but the Dems had control of things pretty completely in their hearings, and they didn't bring anything that convincing. Except that I was convinced that several witnesses (who mostly brought hearsay) were convinced that they should set foreign policy, rather than the bureacracy setting it.
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Why don't you go look up why people say it is an impeachable offense, or you can continue to pretend you are having a conversation when all you are really doing is being a right wing parrot troll ; )
They are saying that obstructing congress is impeachable. We'll see, but it seems pretty much along party lines now, so not that serious.
[quote]

And then go back and explain your logic here:


If all that were true, we would have to believe that Hunter was working for the US Feds (alphabet agency or special ops) and NOT getting those giant checks for anything suspicious.

And we would have to believe that everyone on the blue side of the senate votes blue, and the red side votes red. Not much blurring, so either a heck of a coincidence, or lots of people are betting their careers and about to fail.


I'm trying to guess why you think Biden's family isn't corrupt for taking those huge payouts from Burisma...I thought you might be suggesting that Hunter B. was working for the US. If he was, it was a secret.

Quote:
Because I dont see how those things follow from either the conversation or from one another.
They don't. I was grasping at straws while trying to figure out what you were getting at.

Does money flowing into a family of a VP sound AT ALL sketchy to you? Or is Hunter and his giant payouts uninteresting?

If Baron Trump got paid YUGELY for sitting on a board of a Russian oil company, would you also find it unimportant?
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