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Human Endeavour Includes thinking really hard...

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Old 12th February 2012, 11:31 PM   #19125  /  #1
Exi5tentialist
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Is Dawkins in making the final transition...

... from idiot to racist? He is now determined to liberate Europe from barbarian oil aka Middle Eastern oil. Quite what the oil has done to deserve such an epithet he doesn't explain. Presumably it's because it's black.
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Old 13th February 2012, 01:53 AM   #19191  /  #2
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This earlier post of RD's is a little more explanatory ... Paula Kirby's following elaboration even more so.
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Old 13th February 2012, 02:44 AM   #19199  /  #3
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"The reality is...."

How does she fucking know?
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Old 13th February 2012, 03:45 AM   #19211  /  #4
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Pleasant Living
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exi5tentialist View Post
... from idiot to racist? He is now determined to liberate Europe from barbarian oil aka Middle Eastern oil. Quite what the oil has done to deserve such an epithet he doesn't explain. Presumably it's because it's black.
You are an idiot.

I could care less for Dawkins, but that is not close to racist.
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Old 13th February 2012, 07:10 AM   #19241  /  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
You are an idiot.

I could care less for Dawkins, but that is not close to racist.
Yes it is
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Old 13th February 2012, 07:16 AM   #19242  /  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elouise View Post
This earlier post of RD's is a little more explanatory ... Paula Kirby's following elaboration even more so.
It reminds me of Pat Condell's video in which he said, "Everybody knows that the whole nation of Saudi Arabia is mentally ill", following which Dawkins made a special appeal to Condell to join the RDF Forum. Racist tossers, the pair of them.

Dawkins, I recall, described Condell as "quite reasonable in tone." Early evidence of his idiocy. The kind of idiocy that looks for excuses to attack a whole nation of people. In this case, Saudi Arabians in general.
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Old 13th February 2012, 07:29 AM   #19247  /  #7
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Whereas if he had been talking about the US you wouldn't have said a thing.

You're only taking umbridge because of who they're targeting, why are you so focused on race?

Because you're racist.
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Old 13th February 2012, 07:33 AM   #19249  /  #8
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Grumpy - I'm not calling anyone barbarians, nor generalising about their natural resources being barbarian.
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Old 13th February 2012, 07:38 AM   #19253  /  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exi5tentialist View Post
Grumpy - I'm not calling anyone barbarians, nor generalising about their natural resources being barbarian.
You're completely racist. The only reason you noticed this was because of who he was targetting. That makes you racist.
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Old 13th February 2012, 09:30 AM   #19254  /  #10
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: the thin one out of Laurel & Hardy
list of racists itt:

Exi
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Old 13th February 2012, 09:39 AM   #19255  /  #11
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There's just no stopping him, RD is qualified and has rightly an appeal to authority re biology but without such rigorous restraints of accredited study he's held that appeal to authority through sociology, psychology and now, it seems, international politics & global economics.

Watch this space - I sense he's fast tracking his route to wingnut at an accelerating rate! It looks as though he's hoping for economic sanction to be a reality, not a problem it's worked in the past but only with clear unity from those applying the pressure and a plausibly realistic goal such as an end to apartheid. I'd be comfortable laying a bet that secularising the majority of so many islamic states is frankly so unlikely as to make it a ridiculous goal, almost as unlikely as RD pragmatically accepting the religiousness in return for curbing some extremes of barbarity. That's why he's not likely to get any real footing on the actual stage that may influence the turn of events.

He's a hugely clever man, but from where I'm sat, he looks almost there in wingnut status and I think, in the end, the harder he tries the more likely he'll be remembered as one who lost the plot.
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Old 13th February 2012, 12:27 PM   #19279  /  #12
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meh
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Old 13th February 2012, 12:31 PM   #19281  /  #13
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basically everyone in GB is a racist so I'm not surprised
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Old 13th February 2012, 01:36 PM   #19305  /  #14
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: the thin one out of Laurel & Hardy
true
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Old 13th February 2012, 03:01 PM   #19355  /  #15
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list of dummies itt
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Old 13th February 2012, 08:05 PM   #19413  /  #16
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floppit View Post
There's just no stopping him, RD is qualified and has rightly an appeal to authority re biology but without such rigorous restraints of accredited study he's held that appeal to authority through sociology, psychology and now, it seems, international politics & global economics.

Watch this space - I sense he's fast tracking his route to wingnut at an accelerating rate! It looks as though he's hoping for economic sanction to be a reality, not a problem it's worked in the past but only with clear unity from those applying the pressure and a plausibly realistic goal such as an end to apartheid. I'd be comfortable laying a bet that secularising the majority of so many islamic states is frankly so unlikely as to make it a ridiculous goal, almost as unlikely as RD pragmatically accepting the religiousness in return for curbing some extremes of barbarity. That's why he's not likely to get any real footing on the actual stage that may influence the turn of events.

He's a hugely clever man, but from where I'm sat, he looks almost there in wingnut status and I think, in the end, the harder he tries the more likely he'll be remembered as one who lost the plot.
We are all wingnuts. We all have our crazy notions that we think are true that we would like to act on. Most of us never have a position in which we can act on those ideas and try to have an influence on those ideas. Dawkins does. That's basically it.

And really, I haven't payed him any real attention for years (and don't plan on starting), so I'm not sure what this wingnut stuff relates to. I know he is an oddball about certain things, but I'm unaware of anything extreme.
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Old 13th February 2012, 09:03 PM   #19418  /  #17
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'Barbarian oil' is just one of a series of Dawkins utterances that really wind me up; it might be useful for me to say exactly why. Sorry if this hasn't come up in this thread, but the reasoning I give seems to me to be implicit in many of the Dawkins defences I read and hear all the time.

The whole 'islam-isn't-a-race' defence is a non-starter as a defence. When people say you can't be racist about muslims because islam isn't a race, they are really saying that racism would be acceptable, if only racism weren't about race.

But the main characteristic of racism is the way it de-humanises. In racism, you either try to depict the people you are being racist about as being animals or at least somehow less human than you. By saying 'islam isn't a race', atheists are saying that they don't mind about the dehumanisation as long as it isn't on the grounds of race. Dehumanising people on the grounds of their religion is fine, race is not.

That's the crux of the reason why the word 'barbarian' is so unacceptable. If Dawkins were using the word 'barbarian' about people's skin colour then he would be widely denounced. But it's ok to use the same derogatory term about people's religion - in Dawkins's book. In my book it isn't.

The word 'barbarian' itself has deeply racist connotations and history; its history specifically includes usages which are racially-motivated. It is not possible to use this term and separate it from the racial baggage it carries.

Now I do not for one moment condone executing people for blasphemy and I agree that's stupid. But to condemn a whole nation as 'barbarians' just because of what their government is doing seems to me to be a generalisation too far, even if the nation does take its name from its royal oligarchy. There is a phenomenon known as tarring everyone with the same brush - I think Dawkins does it here.

On top of this there is Dawkins's general stance towards foreign religions which is suspiciously identical to that of a 19th century white, north European colonial oppressor. Thus islam in Dawkins's book is 'evil', Roman Catholicism is slightly less evil but the Archbishop of Canterbury is a really nice man - Dawkins's words.

In using words like barbarian, Dawkins, as I've said in the past, relies on technical linguistic ambiguities to push through secondary meanings which are dehumanising, whilst claiming innocence of all responsibility for doing so. This way of behaving makes my skin crawl. He is such a manipulative man; it's no wonder he appeals to a big macho following, it's all so repulsive. It's about time atheists challenged him and told him in increasing numbers that he doesn't represent them. The sycophancy on the RD website is sickening.
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Old 13th February 2012, 09:22 PM   #19424  /  #18
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I've never been a huge fan of Dawkins, even when I was a prolific poster at his old forum

However, I don't agree that "barbarian" is necessarily a racist term and I doubt Dawkins used it that way. In fact, I largely agree with his name-calling here. The oil of Saudi Arabia is controlled by its government and I think that government maintains many policies that can be called barbarian.

If I call asians "chinks" or "slopes" that's racist. I can call Genghis' Mongol hoards barbaric and call his son Kublai Khan's regime highly civilized. I don't see the racism either way. The same goes for the fuckin' sand niggers and their barbaric regimes.
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Old 13th February 2012, 09:32 PM   #19432  /  #19
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I am going to kill Richard Dawkins irl
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Old 13th February 2012, 09:51 PM   #19448  /  #20
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I hate people who are all talk and no action.
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Old 13th February 2012, 10:12 PM   #19464  /  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FedUpWithFaith View Post
The same goes for the fuckin' sand niggers and their barbaric regimes.
That's a good point actually, it reminds me of when Dawkins went into a sycophantic fit over Pat Condell, inviting him to join the RDF Forum. Condell had already recently described Jerusalem as a celestial 'toilet in the sand' - again, using a term designed to dehumanise people. Actually anyone who has been to Jerusalem will know there isn't a great deal of sand about, so Condell probably used the word sand because it is a well-known component of the racist epithet you so ably demonstrate in your post.
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Old 13th February 2012, 10:16 PM   #19470  /  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
I am going to kill Richard Dawkins irl
This is an absolutely stupid thing to be posting, even if it is a poor attempt at humour.
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Old 13th February 2012, 10:23 PM   #19478  /  #23
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: the thin one out of Laurel & Hardy
Quote:
Originally Posted by FedUpWithFaith View Post
I hate people who are all talk and no action.
hate is a strong word!
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Old 13th February 2012, 10:24 PM   #19480  /  #24
gib
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: the thin one out of Laurel & Hardy
how are you guys defining racism wrt your barbarian exchange just now?
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Old 13th February 2012, 10:34 PM   #19488  /  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exi5tentialist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
I am going to kill Richard Dawkins irl
This is an absolutely stupid thing to be posting, even if it is a poor attempt at humour.
How else is he supposed kill him if not irl?
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