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Old 20th October 2018, 04:38 PM   #439247  /  #51
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
Also, you only need a very small amount of toothpaste, about the size of a pea, and what is important isn't brushing for 5 minutes, it's spreading that toothpaste around to all your teeth and letting it sit there long enough for the fluoride ions to interact with your enamel.


Which doesn't happen when you drink it. When you drink it, it just gets excreted by your kidneys or winds up in your bones. It does NOT go from your gut back up to your teeth or to your saliva.
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Old 21st October 2018, 04:29 AM   #439260  /  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Also, you only need a very small amount of toothpaste, about the size of a pea, and what is important isn't brushing for 5 minutes, it's spreading that toothpaste around to all your teeth and letting it sit there long enough for the fluoride ions to interact with your enamel.


Which doesn't happen when you drink it. When you drink it, it just gets excreted by your kidneys or winds up in your bones. It does NOT go from your gut back up to your teeth or to your saliva.
I was just curious about the thing you said about it getting absorbed into bones, so I looked it up, and came across this article:


https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientif...n/en/l-3/2.htm


It does say that the majority of fluoride is removed through renal excretion. It made mention of 99% of fluoride found in the body is in teeth and bones. So it doesn't seem a bad thing that a small amount might get re-absorbed into the bones?


Also, was saying once fluoride is ingested, it is distributed through our blood, (through plasma) - and also, there is an amount of about 65% of what is found in the plasma, is found in the saliva. So it seems it still acts on the saliva, even after ingesting it.


It makes sense, what you say, to use a fluoride toothpaste and keep it on your teeth so that the fluoride ions help to interact with the enamel, and that would seem maybe more efficient than just ingesting it.


But another thing, even if you are going that route - your body will still essentially be ingesting it, and it would still be distributed throughout the plasma anyway, and excreted the same way. So, it's not like that is any different..



I guess it is just a matter of whether it is useful enough to have in the water? Which, seems it's better than nothing, right?

Last edited by Mantisdreamz; 21st October 2018 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 21st October 2018, 04:46 AM   #439261  /  #53
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How does fluoride prevent tooth decay

Quote:
The outer layer of your tooth consists of enamel. Enamel is composed primarily of calcium hydroxyapatite. When your teeth are exposed to fluoride at high enough concentrations, fluoride ions can displace a small number of calcium ions. Your enamel will now have fluoride hydroxyapatite, as well as the naturally occurring calcium hydroxyapatite. This makes your enamel much more resistant to acid erosion or demineralization.

Daily application of fluoride is easily accomplished by using a fluoride containing toothpaste. Most toothpastes contain fluoride, but you can confirm this by checking that sodium fluoride is listed among the active ingredients at a concentration of around .15%.
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Old 21st October 2018, 06:00 AM   #439262  /  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantisdreamz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Also, you only need a very small amount of toothpaste, about the size of a pea, and what is important isn't brushing for 5 minutes, it's spreading that toothpaste around to all your teeth and letting it sit there long enough for the fluoride ions to interact with your enamel.


Which doesn't happen when you drink it. When you drink it, it just gets excreted by your kidneys or winds up in your bones. It does NOT go from your gut back up to your teeth or to your saliva.
I was just curious about the thing you said about it getting absorbed into bones, so I looked it up, and came across this article:


https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientif...n/en/l-3/2.htm


It does say that the majority of fluoride is removed through renal excretion. It made mention of 99% of fluoride found in the body is in teeth and bones. So it doesn't seem a bad thing that a small amount might get re-absorbed into the bones?


Also, was saying once fluoride is ingested, it is distributed through our blood, (through plasma) - and also, there is an amount of about 65% of what is found in the plasma, is found in the saliva. So it seems it still acts on the saliva, even after ingesting it.


It makes sense, what you say, to use a fluoride toothpaste and keep it on your teeth so that the fluoride ions help to interact with the enamel, and that would seem maybe more efficient than just ingesting it.


But another thing, even if you are going that route - your body will still essentially be ingesting it, and it would still be distributed throughout the plasma anyway, and excreted the same way. So, it's not like that is any different..



I guess it is just a matter of whether it is useful enough to have in the water? Which, seems it's better than nothing, right?

No, it's in addition to the fluoride you are already getting, and much less useful. Did you read the part where in order for calcium uptake to actually happen you need concentrations of 100ppm of fluoride? You shouldn't be ingesting that, but it's okay to let it sit on your teeth and spit it out. Sure you are going to ingest a small portion of that.


The point is, the usefulness of fluoride for most people is TOPICAL applications.



Here is something to ponder. Tea is full of fluoride. Always has been. And yet, Britain has some of the worst facking teeth I have ever seen.



You see, all this science of fluoridation was not based on understanding how fluoride worked. For 50 years, we have been working with sub standard evidence. A casual relationship, not a causal one.


Here you go, from a peer reviewed journal on fluoride in tea

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808922



That said those studies that say fluoride lowers your IQ have been successfully challenged. The original studies came out of China 7 years ago and other studies dispute their results.


In fact a lot of the studies are just as BAD as the original, showing correlation but not proving causation or examining the actual method of operation.
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Old 21st October 2018, 06:55 AM   #439264  /  #55
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I didn't catch the 100ppm specifically, but I caught in the other article that a topical solution with 0.15% fluoride is what you should look for.


Do you think though... that, with using the higher concentrated topical solutions of fluoride, and then ingesting still a small amount (even though you try to spit most of it out) - would approximately equal the amount of fluoride you ingest from drinking water that has been fluoridated? Do you see what I mean? So, it still might be the same amount that you are ingesting anyway.. if you were to drink fluoridated water vs not drinking fluoridated water, yet using a strong fluoride toothpaste.


Maybe with the tea thing, that since it is mildly acidic (leaching the calcium from your teeth), it could be counteracting the fluoride received?


Fluoride lowering the IQ seems odd. I read in the article that I linked, said that the blood-brain barrier limits the amount of fluoride diffused into the central nervous system. It did say that it does travel across the placenta - not sure what that would really entail. But ya, that seems like nonsense, re the IQ thing
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:01 AM   #439265  /  #56
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odd
you misspelled bullshit
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:02 AM   #439266  /  #57
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..so since the acidity breaks down the calcium in the enamel, it makes for fluoride to not properly interact with the calcium ?
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:03 AM   #439267  /  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantisdreamz View Post
odd
you misspelled bullshit
I did. Though I did say nonsense, probably was a bit too generous
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:15 AM   #439269  /  #59
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantisdreamz View Post
..so since the acidity breaks down the calcium in the enamel, it makes for fluoride to not properly interact with the calcium ?

I don't know. You might find a study on it. That study was just looking at how much fluoride people were drinking in their tea, in addition to the fluoridated drinking water.


I actually started this thread because my ex husbands gf gave me a bunch of tea in thanks for watching the dogs. I am not a tea drinker, so I googled it, and then spent some time googling fluoride...and ran across the new study on the elderly and fluoride's topical mechanism of operation.



Most of the claims made for the health benefits of tea seem to be bullshit too : )



I no longer even look at stuff on page 1 when I google things, because it's usually clickbait articles and other crap.



I skip to page 4.
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:22 AM   #439270  /  #60
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantisdreamz View Post
odd
you misspelled bullshit

I tracked this down. It all started with a series of studies done in China in the early 2000's and down to about 2011. I counted about 12 papers. Some were covering general water quality and just sideswiped fluoride. China has problems with too much fluoride in their water in some areas.



The original papers are in Chinese, and I can't read them, so I don't know what they were going on about. But it turned into clickbait pretty fast and was grabbed by the anti-fluoride people.
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:33 AM   #439271  /  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
I actually started this thread because my ex husbands gf gave me a bunch of tea in thanks for watching the dogs. I am not a tea drinker, so I googled it, and then spent some time googling fluoride...and ran across the new study on the elderly and fluoride's topical mechanism of operation.

Most of the claims made for the health benefits of tea seem to be bullshit too : )

I no longer even look at stuff on page 1 when I google things, because it's usually clickbait articles and other crap.

I skip to page 4.
That's actually a good idea.


So, after all this, will you drink the tea that you were given?


....hmm, I always just accepted that tea was supposedly good for you.
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:49 AM   #439272  /  #62
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it would be prudent to consider the provenance of any article claiming a valid link between IQ and any causal factor before trying to tie it to this one; I'm just saying
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Old 21st October 2018, 11:01 AM   #439276  /  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Here is something to ponder. Tea is full of fluoride. Always has been. And yet, Britain has some of the worst facking teeth I have ever seen.

If you're going to argue science, at least do the bare minimum of research https://www.google.com/search?q=british+teeth+myth
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Old 21st October 2018, 05:36 PM   #439280  /  #64
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Southwest Atlantica
Quote:
Originally Posted by gib View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Here is something to ponder. Tea is full of fluoride. Always has been. And yet, Britain has some of the worst facking teeth I have ever seen.

If you're going to argue science, at least do the bare minimum of research https://www.google.com/search?q=british+teeth+myth

"According to TV doctor Chris van Tulleken" ... LMAO!
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32883893

ETA: "TV doctor" in America means "actor", but in the UK it means "real doctor on TV". ... 2 X LMAO at that
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Last edited by MondoVman; 21st October 2018 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:28 PM   #439282  /  #65
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
Quote:
Originally Posted by gib View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Here is something to ponder. Tea is full of fluoride. Always has been. And yet, Britain has some of the worst facking teeth I have ever seen.

If you're going to argue science, at least do the bare minimum of research https://www.google.com/search?q=british+teeth+myth



We have Trump, you could at least give us this.
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:36 PM   #439283  /  #66
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: the thin one out of Laurel & Hardy
you voted for him!
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Old 21st October 2018, 07:52 PM   #439284  /  #67
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
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you voted for him!

Did not! Your reputation for bad teeth comes from your actors : )
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Last edited by Zeluvia; 21st October 2018 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 21st October 2018, 11:40 PM   #439295  /  #68
gib
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: the thin one out of Laurel & Hardy
My apologies, could have sworn you did.
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Old 22nd October 2018, 02:52 AM   #439323  /  #69
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
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Originally Posted by MSG View Post
it would be prudent to consider the provenance of any article claiming a valid link between IQ and any causal factor before trying to tie it to this one; I'm just saying

Well then, check out this one:


https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655


A link between prenatal fluoride exposure and cognitive impairment.
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Old 22nd October 2018, 02:54 AM   #439324  /  #70
Zeluvia
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Evil Duckess
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My apologies, could have sworn you did.

You are not completely wrong, I considered it for the Lulz. But when it came down to it, I had to vote for the woman, laughs be damned.


Ya know, iced tea is a favorite drink of the Southern US, Texas, and Rural farm communities.



ie. Trump voters.





Rabbit with pancake means I am not serious. how the fuck can you take a rabbit with a pancake seriously?
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Old 22nd October 2018, 02:57 AM   #439325  /  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantisdreamz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
I actually started this thread because my ex husbands gf gave me a bunch of tea in thanks for watching the dogs. I am not a tea drinker, so I googled it, and then spent some time googling fluoride...and ran across the new study on the elderly and fluoride's topical mechanism of operation.

Most of the claims made for the health benefits of tea seem to be bullshit too : )

I no longer even look at stuff on page 1 when I google things, because it's usually clickbait articles and other crap.

I skip to page 4.
That's actually a good idea.


So, after all this, will you drink the tea that you were given?


....hmm, I always just accepted that tea was supposedly good for you.



I haven't decided. It is a "sampler" like thing and has different teas in it, and I am not done googling them all! Probably not though.


I am at the age where you think about the health of your bones. A lot.


And I am not really a tea drinker.


But it does make me wonder if people realize how much fluoride is IN tea...and why the fuck if the CDC is located in Atlanta, the home of Southern Iced Black Tea, they haven't said anything about it, so I emailed them and asked them if they took into account how much tea the South drinks when they made their drinking water fluoride recommendations, just for fun. I might have more fun with this too. Considering visiting reddit.

Anyway I will be researching tea and fluoride next, and various tea flavors.
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Old 22nd October 2018, 03:01 AM   #439326  /  #72
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https://www.ada.org/en/press-room/ne...take-in-mexico
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Old 22nd October 2018, 03:10 AM   #439327  /  #73
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looking forward to reading how your
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research
distinguishes between the causal effects of fluoride and sugar in sweetened iced tea
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Old 22nd October 2018, 03:26 AM   #439329  /  #74
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maybe Southern Black Iced Tea doesn't have sugar added to it though?


I remember when I was waitressing, it was odd for the Americans to have sweetened iced tea.


I used to have to steep actual tea for them, and then chill it on ice... which, was lots of fun, and I had a lot of time to do that for them.....

Last edited by Mantisdreamz; 22nd October 2018 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 22nd October 2018, 03:27 AM   #439330  /  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantisdreamz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeluvia View Post
I actually started this thread because my ex husbands gf gave me a bunch of tea in thanks for watching the dogs. I am not a tea drinker, so I googled it, and then spent some time googling fluoride...and ran across the new study on the elderly and fluoride's topical mechanism of operation.

Most of the claims made for the health benefits of tea seem to be bullshit too : )

I no longer even look at stuff on page 1 when I google things, because it's usually clickbait articles and other crap.

I skip to page 4.
That's actually a good idea.


So, after all this, will you drink the tea that you were given?


....hmm, I always just accepted that tea was supposedly good for you.



I haven't decided. It is a "sampler" like thing and has different teas in it, and I am not done googling them all! Probably not though.


I am at the age where you think about the health of your bones. A lot.


And I am not really a tea drinker.


But it does make me wonder if people realize how much fluoride is IN tea...and why the fuck if the CDC is located in Atlanta, the home of Southern Iced Black Tea, they haven't said anything about it, so I emailed them and asked them if they took into account how much tea the South drinks when they made their drinking water fluoride recommendations, just for fun. I might have more fun with this too. Considering visiting reddit.

Anyway I will be researching tea and fluoride next, and various tea flavors.
Seems she might have been better off giving you a taste tester of local ales instead.


I wonder if they will respond? I doubt it.


I would take this to Reddit, if I were you, and if you are really interested.
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