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Old 11th December 2013, 02:46 AM   #130421  /  #1
MondoVman
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As A Man Thinketh (c 1902) by James Allen

There are many instances of this online. Here's a link to one of them, which is not the source of the one I downloaded and read.

"As a man thinketh in his heart so is he,"

http://www.leaguelineup.com/tempsite...ames_Allen.pdf
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Old 11th December 2013, 03:12 AM   #130425  /  #2
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Interesting to see a treatise on how to meditate properly and how to tell if you are simply daydreaming or really meditating in that book.
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Old 11th December 2013, 05:43 AM   #130428  /  #3
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I unintentionally linked to multiple writings by James Allen concatenated into one. Haha on me.

The book "As A Man Thinketh" that I intended occurs first, and is not about meditation. It's about thought. "Meditation" occurs in the first exactly once "This little volume (the result of meditation and experience)".
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Old 25th February 2014, 08:19 AM   #136769  /  #4
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This looks fascinating - I looked through a little bit of it and I don't think its just about thought - I think its about the Human Condition and how our thoughts betray us into thinking that our thoughts are us.

It would be great to talk about this paper one paragraph at a time...
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Old 25th February 2014, 08:41 AM   #136770  /  #5
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Here it is - he says it at the very bottom of his paper ... Well he's actually saying it all the way through - the message is for man to stop thinking and to find out who he is without his attachments. The attachments are the things that humans pin on themselves- I am a husband a wife - I am religious -I am rich - I am clever. The 'I am' gets stripped away and then man is left with who he really is - Thats the - Inner Tranformation. Deeper Meaning. Happiness.


"HAPPY in the Eternal Happiness is he who has

come to that Life from which the thought of self is
abolished"



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Last edited by TheAtheistWhoStoleJesus; 25th February 2014 at 08:56 AM. Reason: added text ...
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Old 25th February 2014, 09:13 AM   #136771  /  #6
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That's why some people stick themselves in isolation for weeks at a time - Its to remove themselves from their attachments and to bring on the nothing - or to just be a being...
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Old 25th February 2014, 12:29 PM   #136777  /  #7
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Here is someone named Alan Watts who is talking about the same thing in a short way - I'm loving Allan Watts atm - I think he's brilliant - 'see'


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Old 25th February 2014, 12:43 PM   #136778  /  #8
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From James Allens essay -

"As you succeed in overcoming self you will begin to

see things in their right relations. He who is
swayed by any passion, prejudice, like or dislike, adjusts everything to that particular bias, and sees
only his own delusions. He who is absolutely free from all passion, prejudice, preference, and partiality,
sees himself as he is; sees others as they are; sees all things in their proper proportions and right
relations. Having nothing to attack, nothing to defend, nothing to conceal, and no interests to guard, he
is at peace"

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Old 26th February 2014, 12:00 AM   #136790  /  #9
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To be honest though, I really don't see how the human brain can conceive of nothingness. It's got too many chemicals and electrical impulses rushing through it.

Also, I do not think most people have a fear of death. I think they have a fear of extreme pain in life-threatening illness.

Last edited by Exi5tentialist; 26th February 2014 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 26th February 2014, 12:24 AM   #136791  /  #10
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I share Exi's thoughts on this.

Even in the deepest sleep, neurons fire.
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Old 26th February 2014, 01:24 AM   #136795  /  #11
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Thinking
is whats causing the problem because the moment you try to think about it you've lost it. Its not in thought.

Its in the space between the thought - if you can recognize those moments you've got it.
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Old 26th February 2014, 08:17 PM   #136819  /  #12
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I fear dementia
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Old 26th February 2014, 08:27 PM   #136820  /  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAtheistWhoStoleJesus View Post

Thinking
is whats causing the problem because the moment you try to think about it you've lost it. Its not in thought.

Its in the space between the thought - if you can recognize those moments you've got it.
Well yeah, metaphorically that works, but it's not the same thing as not existing, and this state of in-between-thoughts is still just a metaphor.

(@ MSG - I fear fear)
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Old 26th February 2014, 08:45 PM   #136821  /  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exi5tentialist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAtheistWhoStoleJesus View Post

Thinking
is whats causing the problem because the moment you try to think about it you've lost it. Its not in thought.

Its in the space between the thought - if you can recognize those moments you've got it.
Well yeah, metaphorically that works, but it's not the same thing as not existing, and this state of in-between-thoughts is still just a metaphor.

(@ MSG - I fear fear)
I'm not sure about metaphor Exi5 but I can do it - I can find the space between my thoughts and hold it - and I still exist. Am I doing a metaphor when I do this?

Its just a way to be with yourself rather than being with your thoughts - they're two different things. Anyway - I'm agreeing with the essay more than I'm talking about myself.
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Last edited by TheAtheistWhoStoleJesus; 26th February 2014 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 26th February 2014, 08:57 PM   #136822  /  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG View Post
I fear dementia
Me too .. I want some alternative options.
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Old 26th February 2014, 09:28 PM   #136824  /  #16
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I believe that if anything wasn't literal it would be our thoughts, because thoughts are illusions. Our thoughts are not us - they're just thoughts. But the idea of being in the space without thought - is who we really are. That's seems right to me.
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Old 26th February 2014, 09:48 PM   #136826  /  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAtheistWhoStoleJesus View Post
I believe that if anything wasn't literal it would be our thoughts, because thoughts are illusions. Our thoughts are not us - they're just thoughts. But the idea of being in the space without thought - is who we really are. That's seems right to me.
How are thoughts 'not us'? Our brains, our minds, produce these thoughts, not some alien parasite.

We can't even define 'nothing', because something is always there. Space itself is full of things - stars, planets, comets, rocks, ice, gases, various kinds of radiation, innumerable particles.

Perhaps what people mean when they say 'without thought' merely means 'calm thoughts', or 'unfocussed thoughts'. Those are still thoughts.
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Old 26th February 2014, 10:57 PM   #136827  /  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borealis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAtheistWhoStoleJesus View Post
I believe that if anything wasn't literal it would be our thoughts, because thoughts are illusions. Our thoughts are not us - they're just thoughts. But the idea of being in the space without thought - is who we really are. That's seems right to me.
How are thoughts 'not us'? Our brains, our minds, produce these thoughts, not some alien parasite.

We can't even define 'nothing', because something is always there. Space itself is full of things - stars, planets, comets, rocks, ice, gases, various kinds of radiation, innumerable particles.

Perhaps what people mean when they say 'without thought' merely means 'calm thoughts', or 'unfocussed thoughts'. Those are still thoughts.
Hi borealis - Eckhart Tolle can explain it better than I can - He also explains how the mind always wants to analyze. I know that you don't think much of him but please don't let that turn you off because I think he answers some of your questions.

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Old 27th February 2014, 11:30 AM   #136837  /  #19
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borialis; "Perhaps what people mean when they say 'without thought' merely means 'calm thoughts', or 'unfocussed thoughts'. Those are still thoughts."

I've been thinking about this a lot today. (I think about this shit all the time really >_<) Maybe your right, I really dont know - What I am pretty sure of though is that this is all tied up with life and death and fear and even 'fear of fear' ..

This article came in my fb feed and I think its right on topic. Its about how arts graduates are under appreciated, under paid, under employed and they shouldn't be. The solution suggested is that they should be paid a fortune to start developing a modern life and death industry and to talk about and teach these ideas to humans ...

from the article: "We aren't creatures who need only practical things like food and drink, cement and running shoes. We also desperately crave nourishment for what we might as well, with no superficial associations, call our souls. This soul-related work should become a huge and legitimate part of the world economy, worth as many billions as the cement trade.

"soul related work" - I love that

http://www.philosophersmail.com/2702...a-graduate.php
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Old 27th February 2014, 11:42 AM   #136838  /  #20
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In Melbourne between now and 2017, employment in the funeral industry is predicted to rise by over 80%. There's a lot of people going to need some soul related work. That used to be the bread and butter of the church and they do it the best but people don't use them any more.
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Old 27th February 2014, 11:55 AM   #136839  /  #21
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charlou if your interested there's a really good article in that link about Phillip Seymour Hoffman ..
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Old 27th February 2014, 12:51 PM   #136840  /  #22
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In Melbourne between now and 2017, employment in the funeral industry is predicted to rise by over 80%. There's a lot of people going to need some soul related work. That used to be the bread and butter of the church and they do it the best but people don't use them any more.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Funeral industry employment will rise because western populations are aging. In NA the huge Boomer population are all over sixty now, it's a demographic reality.

Ime churches only rarely provide any more support than a ritual, and most secular people are capable of coming up with their own rituals when faced with the death of elderly relatives. Younger people in the main have moved past the oldest surviving generation - they care about/love their elderly relatives, but death is not a surprise nor is it shocking.
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Old 27th February 2014, 10:57 PM   #136853  /  #23
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"I'm not sure what you're getting at here."

I know borealis - I was jumping way ahead with that one - I even told myself not to post it because it wont tie in properly. But you mentioned rituals and there's something in the ritual of it. I guess I haven't seen enough secular funerals to be able to make the comparison.
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Old 27th February 2014, 11:19 PM   #136855  /  #24
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There's a lot of secular people moving into those "Atheist Churches". Australia has some started up as well. I'm about to go and see what they are offering and what is it the these secular people feel they aren't getting from their community. They seem to have a void that isn't being filled ... I think that for the grieving - death is a surprise and it is shocking. How can it not be?
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Old 27th February 2014, 11:24 PM   #136856  /  #25
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I'm fairly old. I've attended a fair number of funerals.

Secular funerals in my part of the world generally are called 'celebrations of life'. Usually there's been a cremation or other kind of care for the remains beforehand. It's essentially a party. There is almost always food, drink, and musicians. There is always a stage or spot set apart, sometimes with a microphone, where people will stand and read or speak about the deceased, tell stories about them, express their feelings. Often people will perform in some way - musicians and singers might play favourite songs of the diseased, or dedicate a song to them. Sometimes there will be a bit of poetry. I've even seen a dancer dedicate a tap dance to her deceased friend.

And of course, there is the intent to remember the dead and offer comfort to their loved ones.
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