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Old 2nd August 2015, 02:09 AM   #277530  /  #251
borealis
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Please ruin the interlude.
Maybe that right there is one of the differences. I don't want to.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 02:21 AM   #277533  /  #252
Jerome
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Originally Posted by Majiffy View Post
Actually a flat tax is a better idea IMO.
That wasn't an option on the quiz. The effect of your tax is not equal. $10 is a lot of money to someone earning $100, but $1k means much less to someone earning $10k.

Regarding your view, why should any wage earner pay any tax until after they have fed, housed and clothed themselves? Why should the wage earner be taxed on medical care?

How about no tax on the working class. Only a tax on excess.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 02:24 AM   #277534  /  #253
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Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome View Post
The question presumes some higher entity controlling these economic stats.
The question assumes that inflation can be controlled or that unemployment can be controlled. The assumption may be wrong. Be it as it may, there are no other assumptions.
It is a political quiz, the presumption is inherent.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 02:27 AM   #277535  /  #254
Majiffy
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Regarding your view, why should any wage earner pay any tax until after they have fed, housed and clothed themselves? Why should the wage earner be taxed on medical care?
Because they still benefit from a number of things those taxes afford.
Paved roads, public services, etc.

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How about no tax on the working class. Only a tax on excess.
Because then only the rich would have anything, because only where the rich live would be taken care of.

It would actually make the wage gap worse.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:04 AM   #277545  /  #255
Jerome
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Because they still benefit from a number of things those taxes afford.
Paved roads, public services, etc.
So?

Those can all be built without taxing the wage earner.

Your logic is a homeless person should be taxed for the homeless shelter, that's just dumb.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:05 AM   #277547  /  #256
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Those can all be built without taxing the wage earner.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:08 AM   #277549  /  #257
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How about no tax on the working class. Only a tax on excess.
Because then only the rich would have anything, because only where the rich live would be taken care of.

It would actually make the wage gap worse.
Not taxing the worker will make the rich have everything is your position.




Please explain how taxing workers to give 'too big to fail' tax funded bailouts is anything but a transfer of wealth from the worker to the elite.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:22 AM   #277554  /  #258
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Not taxing the worker will make the rich have everything is your position.




Please explain how taxing workers to give 'too big to fail' tax funded bailouts is anything but a transfer of wealth from the worker to the elite.
You can't change the frame to put me in an untenable position.

What do you think happens when the only ones paying for services are the wealthy?

The wealthy are the only ones served.


Money and politics isn't going to change if you allow all the money and all the politics to get funneled into the pockets of just the wealthy. It'll get worse.





But I look forward to hearing you explain how public services such as libraries and road maintenance will just magically "get done" without taxpayer money.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:41 AM   #277564  /  #259
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:41 AM   #277565  /  #260
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What do you think happens when the only ones paying for services are the wealthy?

The wealthy are the only ones served.
Not when the power structure is local.

Please explain why the national government needs to doll out roads? You do know that idea was perfected by the nazis. No shit, look it up. That is the shit you get when you have the national government doing stuff for you at your expense and their benefit.

Multinational corporations love being able to tell national government where to put roads for their benefit.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:43 AM   #277567  /  #261
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MSG
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:43 AM   #277568  /  #262
Jerome
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But I look forward to hearing you explain how public services such as libraries and road maintenance will just magically "get done" without taxpayer money.
That is all pretty much funded though local property tax as it is.

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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:45 AM   #277570  /  #263
Majiffy
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Quote:
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What do you think happens when the only ones paying for services are the wealthy?

The wealthy are the only ones served.
Not when the power structure is local.
What fantasy land do you live in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome View Post
Please explain why the national government needs to doll out roads? You do know that idea was perfected by the nazis. No shit, look it up. That is the shit you get when you have the national government doing stuff for you at your expense and their benefit.
Ah, playing the Nazi card. Brilliant.

Let me know when you have a real argument.

Quote:
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Multinational corporations love being able to tell national government where to put roads for their benefit.
And that kind of shit is only going to increase when all the money going to the government is from the wealthy.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 03:46 AM   #277571  /  #264
Majiffy
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Quote:
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But I look forward to hearing you explain how public services such as libraries and road maintenance will just magically "get done" without taxpayer money.
That is all pretty much funded though local property tax as it is.

Yes

And if you stop taxing the middle class...




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Old 2nd August 2015, 04:55 AM   #277604  /  #265
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*paging Ayn Rand...paging Ayn Rand*
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Yay from
Gonzo (3rd August 2015)
Old 2nd August 2015, 05:15 AM   #277618  /  #266
Hermit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome View Post
The question presumes some higher entity controlling these economic stats.
The question assumes that inflation can be controlled or that unemployment can be controlled. The assumption may be wrong. Be it as it may, there are no other assumptions.
It is a political quiz, the presumption is inherent.
Of course it's a political quiz. Is says so right in the title, but there is no inherent presumption of a higher identity. I simply assume what is necessary to answer the question, and no more. The assumption is that either unemployment can be controlled, or inflation. People make that choice when they vote for political candidates. Leaders like Thatcher, Merkel and Abbott went to the polls with clearly expressed programs to cut government spending, and those programs differ distinctly from those of rival politicians advocating continuous deficit spending. The former lead to reducing inflation, the latter to reducing unemployment. See, mum, no higher identities.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 02:31 PM   #277734  /  #267
Jerome
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Inflation and unemployment has nothing directly to do with government spending.

Inflation is caused by excess currency within an economy.

Unemployment is caused by excess taxation of an economy.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 05:07 PM   #277845  /  #268
Hermit
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Quote:
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Inflation and unemployment has nothing directly to do with government spending.

Inflation is caused by excess currency within an economy.

Unemployment is caused by excess taxation of an economy.
Excess and shortage of currency is influenced by governments' fiscal and tax policies. I prefer to trust the theories of Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences winners such as Milton Friedman, Friedrich Hayek, Lawrence Klein and Paul Krugman over your fact free nonsense.
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Old 2nd August 2015, 05:21 PM   #277859  /  #269
Jerome
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Ohh, so you are backtracking and there is an inherent presumption of a higher identity in the question ...
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Old 2nd August 2015, 05:50 PM   #277867  /  #270
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Ohh, so you are backtracking and there is an inherent presumption of a higher identity in the question ...
Not at all. The economists are not causing inflation or unemployment.
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Old 3rd August 2015, 01:29 AM   #277965  /  #271
Jerome
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Naomi R. Wolf is an American author and former political advisor to Al Gore and Bill Clinton. With the publication of the 1991 bestselling book The Beauty Myth, she became a leading spokeswoman of what was later described as the third wave of the feminist movement.

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Old 3rd August 2015, 01:49 AM   #277966  /  #272
Majiffy
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Considering she was never actually involved in either administration I find this appeal to authority dubiously shallow.*

Her entire involvement with Bill or Al was completely geared towards "help us get women voters". And that's it.

Show me a video of some former White House Press Secretaries talking about this, sure.

*This is not to say I disagree with what was presented. I have no formal opinion. I stopped listening when I heard "Can you tell us what happened in Boston? That looked an awful lot like a police state".
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Old 3rd August 2015, 01:56 AM   #277969  /  #273
Jerome
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lol @ 'I stopped when it became uncomfortable'

She didn't really address Boston, in fact she intentionally moved around it.

She talked about the new laws in place which allow government to directly propagandize the population. See, Bush was skirting the law, right on the edge. Under the current administration it is legal to literally fake news and events for propaganda.

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Last edited by Jerome; 3rd August 2015 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2015, 01:59 AM   #277973  /  #274
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lol @ 'I stopped when it became uncomfortable'
Yeah, sure Jerome.

That's why I stopped listening. Because it was uncomfortable.

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Old 3rd August 2015, 02:25 AM   #277988  /  #275
Jerome
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Being informed requires time, attention and research.

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