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Human Endeavour Includes thinking really hard...

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Old 17th January 2020, 06:46 PM   #455632  /  #1
Cunt
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Read my posts with the following stupid accent: Circum-polar region
Vice Signalling

We've all heard of virtue signalling, and probably caught ourselves doing it.

I just heard of the notion of 'vice-signalling', and hadn't thought of it in such a tiny phrase before.

It could apply to my username, as I would rather those who would censor that word just talk to someone else. (good for both of us, really)

It was used to describe Trump, and how he gets away with not adhering to the 'moral majority' - he NEVER promised to.

The analogy used was good too. The guy said it was like being issued a white suit, and having to decide whether you would keep it clean (you can't) or if you were going to get dirty.
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Old 17th January 2020, 08:55 PM   #455635  /  #2
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It could apply to my username, as I would rather those who would censor that word just talk to someone else. (good for both of us, really)
Per Italiano, il tuo chiami e' Buchiach
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Old 18th January 2020, 07:51 PM   #455678  /  #3
Facetious
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Vice signalling appears to be a highly effective strategy for a politician. Trump and Boris Johson are both as establishment as you can get and were born with a gold embossed invitation to the political elite, but because they 'vice signal ' they're scooping up votes from all the people who are sick of the establishment and political elites.



We have another politician, Jacob Rees Mogg who is an Eton educated poshy mcposhface, married another posho and live together in their massive Tudor mansion with their children one of whom is called Sixtus. Rees Mogg instead of trying to tone down his poshness has gone 'fuck it', or at least that's what he would say if he were a vulgarian. But he's revelling in his poshness, he's flaunting it for the whole world to see. And people living in council houses love him for it because his persona feels more authentic then the vegan lentil sniffing woke scolds who are only open their mouths to piously sermon on how much better they are than the general population.

Last edited by Facetious; 18th January 2020 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 19th January 2020, 12:14 AM   #455679  /  #4
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This guy is SCARY smart. Now I'm listening to him interview his brother, and it turns out he is the dumb one.

He talks about how all our mice were broken. It's a lot scarier than it sounds. I understand some of it.

https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aH...FhqTl81RzBrNUE

Honestly, I started listening to Weinstein because I heard he was chased off his uni job by social justice. I still don't know exactly what happened, except that he was accused of racism, and said he wasn't. (I've gotten both brothers' stories confused a bit)

Careful listening, because he (like several enjoyable academics) is kind of 'on the outs' with mainstream culture.
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Old 19th January 2020, 12:22 AM   #455680  /  #5
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Vice signalling appears to be a highly effective strategy for a politician.
I think it's a good one for everyone.

Example - if you live somewhere that feminism is hated, and you advertise vigorously that you are a feminist, you would effectively insulate your social/professional circle to exclude anti-feminists.

Same if you are gay, muslim or pretty much any such 'hideable' identity. I mean, they may not be 'vice', but they can be, and the signalling works the same in any case.

I've let people think I'm gay, or a race, to let bigots be uncomfortable (if they were going to be)

One of my favourite examples...

I worked at a shop assembling boring shit. For one, hours-long chore, I would sit in a chair, knee to knee across from a guy we later called 'Hatebreed' (because of his tattoo). He had just started, and introduced himself by announcing to me that he was a racist. I smiled, and responded 'I am a race.' Hours of wrenching across from each other after that, where he simply shut up and did his work. A bit uncomfortable for him, I'm fairly sure. Not only am I kind of a large guy, but I was 'senior guy' in that shop. (at least to him)
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zel, would you consider not enabling the shitting up of our forum by engaging in these conversations?

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Old 21st January 2020, 02:25 PM   #455701  /  #6
Facetious
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Originally Posted by Cunt View Post

Example - if you live somewhere that feminism is hated, and you advertise vigorously that you are a feminist, you would effectively insulate your social/professional circle to exclude anti-feminists.

That looks like virtue signalling. Virtue signalling renders your personality repellant to all but those with identical social/political views. If you want to limit yhour social circle then loudly broadcast your virtues to all, if you want to widen it just be human and admit your flaws.
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Old 21st January 2020, 03:29 PM   #455702  /  #7
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Originally Posted by Cunt View Post

Example - if you live somewhere that feminism is hated, and you advertise vigorously that you are a feminist, you would effectively insulate your social/professional circle to exclude anti-feminists.

That looks like virtue signalling. Virtue signalling renders your personality repellant to all but those with identical social/political views. If you want to limit yhour social circle then loudly broadcast your virtues to all, if you want to widen it just be human and admit your flaws.
That does seem to be a difference between the two.

With feminism, if you recall the famous poll, 80 percent of people polled did not identify as feminists, but 80 percent also believed in fairness between the sexes. Identifying as a feminist (or a non-feminist) seems independent from fairness, but people are quite reluctant to call it out as a minority political opinion. (though it clearly is)

Vice signalling sounds a bit different. I could compare it to swearing comedians. Jerry Seinfeld will be invited to your toddler-party, but Andrew Dice Clay will not. I don't know the politics of either comic, but both have advertised their 'vice' (with respect to swearing) clearly enough that you can choose sensibly.

Feminists (or anti-feminists) DO repel most who aren't willing to listen to that shit.

Same for the religious. You might have a large group of your friends who you don't even KNOW if they are religious or not, but those screeching fire and brimstone, or criticising religious ideas harshly, will be well-enough known to you.

Vice signalling seems to have a slightly different character. I remember learning about cocaine (as a non-user) and it reminded me of the homos. Both groups have 'in-jokes' which will be readily understood by those who know, and successfully identify 'friendlies'. This is closer to virtue signalling. People who are very public about their cocaine use (or homosexuality) are automatically accepted ONLY by those who would accept their vice.

Vice signalling seems to be how Trump has innoculated himself against certain criticisms - and it's worked. (I don't know about BoJo, but believe you)

I think listening to certain speakers, or reading certain books, is achieving the same result. I have heard lots of people hate Jordan Peterson fans for following his publications and lectures, but NONE were first-hand. All have come from reading someone saying how terrible he is.

So by announcing an idea of his, very few recognize it. Announcing the idea along with his name, many will automatically react.
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zel, would you consider not enabling the shitting up of our forum by engaging in these conversations?

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Old 21st January 2020, 07:50 PM   #455707  /  #8
Facetious
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Feminists (or anti-feminists) DO repel most who aren't willing to listen to that shit.

Surprisingly not true. I regularly tell men how much I don't like them and hold them responsible for all the bad things that have ever happened in the world. The bastards keep coming back for more. I'm not just talking about my husband who signed a piece of paper contractually obliging him to listen to my shit.

I think the difference between repelling people and drawing them in is now sacrosanct you believe your own views to be. If you don't mind good faith critique of your views, if you're willing to engage in dialogue then you make connections even with people who don't share your views.
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Old 21st January 2020, 08:34 PM   #455708  /  #9
Cunt
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Originally Posted by Facetious View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunt View Post


Feminists (or anti-feminists) DO repel most who aren't willing to listen to that shit.

Surprisingly not true. I regularly tell men how much I don't like them and hold them responsible for all the bad things that have ever happened in the world. The bastards keep coming back for more. I'm not just talking about my husband who signed a piece of paper contractually obliging him to listen to my shit.

I think the difference between repelling people and drawing them in is now sacrosanct you believe your own views to be. If you don't mind good faith critique of your views, if you're willing to engage in dialogue then you make connections even with people who don't share your views.
Forgive me if this sounds shallow, but I connect with you mainly BECAUSE you don't share my views (on feminism, though there isn't as much disagreement as many would think)

There are many male feminists who are using the 'cuttlefish strategy', and some who genuinely want to pursue fairness of some decent type.

Telling the difference isn't always easy. There are a huge group of people who fully believe that women can do anything men can do.

Then there are those who believe that women should be supported in any endeavour they choose, but recognize there are limits to biology. (and choice may be muddled up in that)

When a group supports opening women's sport to men who claim to BE women, it gets interesting to see what happens to their set of beliefs.

I've found that simply being clear that there are strong differences in men and women is a kind of 'vice signalling'. There are plenty of people who grate at that plain fact, and will avoid discussing their 'gender theory' with such a person.

I guess another modern form is to simply express any moderate feelings about Trump. If someone criticises him, ask them about the best thing he has done, and you will be very likely to find that they condemn or ignore, never anything else.
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zel, would you consider not enabling the shitting up of our forum by engaging in these conversations?

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