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Old 18th October 2015, 12:48 AM   #297747  /  #26
Majiffy
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Speaking of Sanders, did you notice the compressor had to kick in for the crowd mics when they announced Bernie? He was right after Hilary and by far the loudest supported campaigner there.
The only time they cut to the audience was when they were cheering Hillary on.
You don't English very well, do you?

Re-read what I said and realize that nothing you said was a response to anything I said.
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Old 18th October 2015, 12:49 AM   #297748  /  #27
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I don't believe there is such a thing as a throw-away vote. I do believe there are people who throw away their ethics at the booth.
I think that if you think not voting for the least worst in a 2-party system is not essentially a vote for the worst, you're naive and have little grasp on how this process works.
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Old 18th October 2015, 12:53 AM   #297751  /  #28
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2000

A vote for Ralph was a vote for George
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Old 18th October 2015, 12:56 AM   #297752  /  #29
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If Hillary is nominated, I will vote Green Party again.

You would willingly throw away a vote for a centrist with left-leaning ideas instead of supporting them against any of the complete lunatics running for the Republican party?

I mean, really.

Any of them.

Pick one.
And this right here is what is wrong with democracy in the US and Australia.

It isn't up to people to change to suit a party, it's up to a party to change to suit the people. This attitude of "you have to vote for the second worst option because the worst option is terribad" is absolutely wrong.

How the hell are the Democrats supposed to know they suck if people keep voting for them? They will continue to drift right because the true left wing voters won't vote for a third party.

I'm with you g, if the Democrats go right, vote super left. Even your one vote will send a message.

I'm not voting for the federal Labor party until they come back to the left where they started. Until then I'm voting for the Greens. Fuck the ALP and their currying favour from the racists and bigots.

Yes, I know that the LNP is way worse, but the ALP won't get better until they lose their left wing base.
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Old 18th October 2015, 01:02 AM   #297757  /  #30
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Bernie Sanders is so left wing for America that he is almost a centrist elsewhere .
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Old 18th October 2015, 01:03 AM   #297759  /  #31
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Well there is an important difference in Australia which is preferential voting instead of first past the post. You can vote for a minor party and still have your vote count toward the ALP. Green votes in 2000 lost Gore the election, which is ironic since he was the one politician in the past 25 years whose election could have altered the trajectory of climate change globally
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Old 18th October 2015, 01:06 AM   #297761  /  #32
Gonzo
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I said potentially. Don't put words in my mouth.

His platform has essentially avoided any issue regarding race and he only skirts around the questions when they are brought up to him in a very direct manner.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something surface much akin to the way things surfaced with Ron Paul.
Well, we'll see if that happens, but personally I think he avoids those topics out of fear of saying something insensitive or ignorant, and the whole idea of him being racist came from the campaign's mishandling of #blacklivesmatter. This is why Bernie chose to say "black lives matter" rather than "all lives matter" at the debate. He was given the opportunity to show he wasn't afraid to say that black live matter, and he answered the question correctly.
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Old 18th October 2015, 01:08 AM   #297763  /  #33
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Speaking of Sanders, did you notice the compressor had to kick in for the crowd mics when they announced Bernie? He was right after Hilary and by far the loudest supported campaigner there.
The only time they cut to the audience was when they were cheering Hillary on.
You don't English very well, do you?

Re-read what I said and realize that nothing you said was a response to anything I said.
My point is CNN rigged the program in Hillary's favor.
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Old 18th October 2015, 01:10 AM   #297765  /  #34
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I don't believe there is such a thing as a throw-away vote. I do believe there are people who throw away their ethics at the booth.
I think that if you think not voting for the least worst in a 2-party system is not essentially a vote for the worst, you're naive and have little grasp on how this process works.
Funny how the people who don't really support anything are always advocating to follow the mainstream.
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Old 18th October 2015, 01:14 AM   #297767  /  #35
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You say that like it's a bad thing
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Old 18th October 2015, 01:19 AM   #297771  /  #36
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The ruling class think it's .
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:01 AM   #297796  /  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majiffy View Post
Quote:
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I don't believe there is such a thing as a throw-away vote. I do believe there are people who throw away their ethics at the booth.
I think that if you think not voting for the least worst in a 2-party system is not essentially a vote for the worst, you're naive and have little grasp on how this process works.
Funny how the people who don't really support anything are always advocating to follow the mainstream.
Lol you're probably arguing with one of the most radicalized anarcho-communists in our generation but sure I don't really support anything.
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:02 AM   #297798  /  #38
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There's a difference between idealistic change and worthless do-nothing idealism.

If you really want to change the world as radically as you claim, you need to go beyond the democratic process. Very illegally beyond the democratic process.

More on this and other local news at 11.
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:05 AM   #297802  /  #39
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i'm with gonzo
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:09 AM   #297807  /  #40
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Green votes in 2000 lost Gore the election, which is ironic since he was the one politician in the past 25 years whose election could have altered the trajectory of climate change globally
Gore has a personal carbon footprint which is the envy of many a poverty-stricken third world nation while he lies and falsifies data and photoshop edits pictures and video and makes millions in the process. He's a very sick fraud and needs to be jailed for a very long time.
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:13 AM   #297808  /  #41
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Looking at the current US presidential race it's becoming increasingly obvious to me that despite my bellyaching and despair concerning the political and social climate in Australia, I really am quite lucky.

FFS, look at the Republican candidates. The at this stage runaway leader promises to expel 10 or 15 million people from the land of the free. Just like that. Has he ever spent as much as a minute trying to assess what this policy would require logistically, or what the consequences will be? Then there's his proposed tax reform. I bet he has not even done a back of the envelope calculation on how to spread each dollar of his tax increases out to cover 50 dollars of his tax cuts, but then Trump has always been more of a fan of so called reality shows than actual reality.

If the currently leading candidate isn't bad enough, the minor players are even worse. Anybody fancy a president who seriously believes in young earth creationism? What about a dominionist? Or perhaps one who does not care if a video "recreation" of organ harvesting of foetuses has no basis whatsoever in reality?

On the Democratic side. Clinton would have made a very suitable Republican candidate during the 60s or 70s, or fit in perfectly as the right wing conservative Prime Minister of Australia. Sanders, in the unlikely scenario of winning the nomination would loose to J. Bush.

No, I don't think voting for the Democrats is a wasted vote. There is enough difference between the conservative liberals in the pay of big business and the absolutely batshit crazy lunatics the Republicans are fielding to make it worth while. And, as has been pointed out already, every vote for Nader got Bush junior one vote ahead of Gore. I know which result would have been preferable, but that is unfortunately how the first past the post voting system pans out. Preferential voting is another aspect where Australia is way ahead of the USA.
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:19 AM   #297812  /  #42
Majiffy
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG View Post
Green votes in 2000 lost Gore the election, which is ironic since he was the one politician in the past 25 years whose election could have altered the trajectory of climate change globally
Gore has a personal carbon footprint which is the envy of many a poverty-stricken third world nation while he lies and falsifies data and photoshop edits pictures and video and makes millions in the process. He's a very sick fraud and needs to be jailed for a very long time.
So... VW needs to take some tips?
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:22 AM   #297818  /  #43
Majiffy
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FFS, look at the Republican candidates. The at this stage runaway leader promises to expel 10 or 15 million people from the land of the free. Just like that. Has he ever spent as much as a minute trying to assess what this policy would require logistically, or what the consequences will be? Then there's his proposed tax reform. I bet he has not even done a back of the envelope calculation on how to spread each dollar of his tax increases out to cover 50 dollars of his tax cuts, but then Trump has always been more of a fan of so called reality shows than actual reality.
We keep trying to tell ourselves that he's just a big joke gone bad but he hasn't gone away

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On the Democratic side. Clinton would have made a very suitable Republican candidate during the 60s or 70s
Fun fact, she actually started off her political work for Goldwater and other Republicans just before that era

She was into the Democratic party by 68 and her and Bill worked in Texas for McGovern's campaign in 72.
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:27 AM   #297826  /  #44
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:34 AM   #297828  /  #45
Dionysus
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Green votes in 2000 lost Gore the election, which is ironic since he was the one politician in the past 25 years whose election could have altered the trajectory of climate change globally
Gore has a personal carbon footprint which is the envy of many a poverty-stricken third world nation while he lies and falsifies data and photoshop edits pictures and video and makes millions in the process. He's a very sick fraud and needs to be jailed for a very long time.
So... VW needs to take some tips?
Ya I'm a bit cross with VW. They were cheating on the things which actually do matter and not the totally bollox and totally gigantic CO2 red herring.
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:35 AM   #297829  /  #46
MSG
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Quote:
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Green votes in 2000 lost Gore the election, which is ironic since he was the one politician in the past 25 years whose election could have altered the trajectory of climate change globally
Gore has a personal carbon footprint which is the envy of many a poverty-stricken third world nation while he lies and falsifies data and photoshop edits pictures and video and makes millions in the process. He's a very sick fraud and needs to be jailed for a very long time.
that may well be true but none of it alters my core point
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:43 AM   #297835  /  #47
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Goldwater
He lost a shit ton of momentum with the natural born citizen status arguments.
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:53 AM   #297837  /  #48
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Looking at the current US presidential race it's becoming increasingly obvious to me that despite my bellyaching and despair concerning the political and social climate in Australia, I really am quite lucky.
Lucky that no matter whom we elect, we will continue to shoulder your burden in keeping the Pacific free.

You are welcome.
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Old 18th October 2015, 02:57 AM   #297840  /  #49
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every vote for Perot got Clinton one vote ahead of Bush.
every vote for Perot got Clinton one vote ahead of Bush

As if the tv show drama didn't already run that episode.

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Old 18th October 2015, 02:58 AM   #297841  /  #50
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Oh yeah and for a while I'd forgotten why we didn't already have an American one of these threads.
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